Fire Doors Fire Doors Fire Doors Everywhere !!!

[FRAN1870]

Hi All,

For my loft conversion I of course have to change all the doors of habitable rooms to FD30's
Question is that the existing frames of course have no rebate for the strips and are only 38mm deep.

1: Do I need the strips ( read that a few BC don't actually insist on them )
2: Do I need to change all the frames ( headache and mess arrrrrgggghhh )
3: Can you get a thinner 38mm 6 panel FD30 ?

This has been my first major oversight in the whole project, I knew I'd have to change the doors but the frames will be a nightmare.

Suggestions welcome

 

[Gerrydelasel]

My house was formerly a multiple student let, so all the doors were changed to firedoors. The owner simply increased the thickness of the (Victorian) frames with some stripwood so the 45mm doors would fit, and fitted self-closing mechanisms. No rebate strips in the frames. Presumably this passed inspection (?)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Normally the frames can be retained, assuming they're standard sized doors that are able to be replaced like for like. But speak with your BCO as he is signing it off and some all BCO's wil expect something very slightly different. As mentioned if necessary the frame can be added to.

 

[londoner1]

Hi All,

For my loft conversion I of course have to change all the doors of habitable rooms to FD30's
Question is that the existing frames of course have no rebate for the strips and are only 38mm deep.

1: Do I need the strips ( read that a few BC don't actually insist on them )
2: Do I need to change all the frames ( headache and mess arrrrrgggghhh )
3: Can you get a thinner 38mm 6 panel FD30 ?

This has been my first major oversight in the whole project, I knew I'd have to change the doors but the frames will be a nightmare.

Suggestions welcome

I too had to install crappy firedoors for a loft conversion and yes some doors were narrow, they just added strips to the end, passed no problems.

 

[wessex101]

Not done one for a while now so memory might be playing tricks on me but aren't they FD20 not FD30?

I always took the view that because of this the building inspectors take a more lenient position and usually accept upgrading the existing frame by enlarging/moving the stops or adding intumescent strips and sometimes just upgrading the existing doors.

It all seems pointless now anyway since they did away with self closers. An open fire door has absolutely no fire resistance so why bother.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

but aren't they FD20 not FD30

They are but you can't buy an FD20.

 

[wessex101]

but aren't they FD20 not FD30

They are but you can't buy an FD20.

I know, I think you missed my point.

Because it is FD20 and not FD30 it is a lower standard so the building inspectors seem to be slightly more relaxed and some allow upgrading to the existing door and frame. If it was a full FD30 door they tend to be more pedantic.

 

[FRAN1870]

Not done one for a while now so memory might be playing tricks on me but aren't they FD20 not FD30?

I always took the view that because of this the building inspectors take a more lenient position and usually accept upgrading the existing frame by enlarging/moving the stops or adding intumescent strips and sometimes just upgrading the existing doors.

It all seems pointless now anyway since they did away with self closers. An open fire door has absolutely no fire resistance so why bother.

I asked this question and they said its based on a study where you are more likely to be educated about closing the fire door if you do it yourself ( apparently )

 

[wessex101]

I asked this question and they said its based on a study where you are more likely to be educated about closing the fire door if you do it yourself ( apparently )

I think it is more likely that studies found 99.9% of homeowners used to remove the self closers as soon as the building inspector has signed the job off. It is just regulations for the sake of it. The linked mains smoke alarms and egress windows are probably the only safeguards we really need.

I read a report recently regarding the regulation for a 100mm step up from an integral garage into a dwelling. It is supposed to relate to the leakage of petrol from a car in the garage seeping under the door into the house. Apparently they could not find a single example of this ever happening. Just some bright spark who sat on the building regulations committee thought it sounded plausible so they included it in the regulations. Now they are having second thoughts as it is a barrier to wheelchair users.

 

[FRAN1870]

I asked this question and they said its based on a study where you are more likely to be educated about closing the fire door if you do it yourself ( apparently )

I think it is more likely that studies found 99.9% of homeowners used to remove the self closers as soon as the building inspector has signed the job off. It is just regulations for the sake of it. The linked mains smoke alarms and egress windows are probably the only safeguards we really need.

I read a report recently regarding the regulation for a 100mm step up from an integral garage into a dwelling. It is supposed to relate to the leakage of petrol from a car in the garage seeping under the door into the house. Apparently they could not find a single example of this ever happening. Just some bright spark who sat on the building regulations committee thought it sounded plausible so they included it in the regulations. Now they are having second thoughts as it is a barrier to wheelchair users.

from the European commission .....

 

[FRAN1870]

Update .. the BC says that I don't need to change the doors if they are in good condition and I get mains smokes in every room off the escape corridor ...

Surely thats the cheapest option ?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Its not just that, its a fact that many will just remove the self closers anyway so why have an unenforceable law and also the thousands of costly hospital visits and sometimes permanent damage caused by children getting their fingers trapped.

Should you ever find yourself in the unfortunate situation whereby there is a fire and you find that you cannot escape from the room you can at least shut the door, miraculously all of a sudden it will seem like it was a very good idea to fit a fire door. But then fires always happen to someone else.

And often young kids sleep right through smoke alarms too BTW - there's a comforting little thought. And another cheery thought, assuming they are awoken they may well hide in a wardrobe or under the bed or similar rather than actually try to get out.

 

[FRAN1870]

Its not just that, its a fact that many will just remove the self closers anyway so why have an unenforceable law and also the thousands of costly hospital visits and sometimes permanent damage caused by children getting their fingers trapped.

Should you ever find yourself in the unfortunate situation whereby there is a fire and you find that you cannot escape from the room you can at least shut the door, miraculously all of a sudden it will seem like it was a very good idea to fit a fire door. But then fires always happen to someone else.

And often young kids sleep right through smoke alarms too BTW - there's a comforting little thought.

If its not acceptable then why is it an option from building control ?
The last thing I want todo is put my family at risk, but I read that early warning is better than prevention of spread .... like the reason that FD's are preferred over sprinklers.

 

[JohnD]

from the European commission .....

Ha ha, very funny, you'll be telling us Bernard's bent Cucumber story next.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If its not acceptable then why is it an option from building control ?

If what's not acceptable?