1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Internal door linings - fire linings

Discussion in 'Building' started by Mr_T25, 4 Apr 2017.

  1. Mr_T25

    Mr_T25

    Joined:
    1 Mar 2016
    Messages:
    277
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Runcorn
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    When fitting a FD30 internal door, is it only the rooms that come off the landing that need to be FD30 i.e. not bathrooms off the landing and not ensuites attached to bedrooms? I ask this in regards to a renovation project rather than a new build.

    Secondly, does an FD30 door require a fire lining? If so what makes it "fire lined", is it just the thickness of the door stop?

    Thx.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

    Joined:
    6 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    3,195
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    FD30 Fire Doors do not require lining as they are made thicker(44mm wide) and that is what gives them the 30 minute time, are quite heavy like 35Kg! and are of solid construction, so they will also require fire door approved CE marked ball bearing hinges, internally they are stuffed with some sort of dense chipboard impregnated with fire retardant substance, as I made this recent inquiry with the door manufacturer, because I was stuck with my frame size requiring shaving more than they recommended.

    I also had to fit on my kitchen door intumescent strip to sides and top.

    I also remembered reading somewhere that bathroom doors are not required to have one, nor rooms with ensuite bath.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Mr_T25

    Mr_T25

    Joined:
    1 Mar 2016
    Messages:
    277
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Runcorn
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    What about ground floor doors to lounge, living room, kitchen?
    I assume from your first line you mean that it does not require "fire lining" rather than lining, but then why are fire rated door stops used for?
    Also what if you get some people who trim too much of the bottom of the door so that it closes properly, does it not increase risk of smoke etc getting in if there is a fire (I mean when people cut too much off such that you can see daylight from the other side)?
     
  5. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

    Joined:
    6 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    3,195
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Correct I meant fire lining, when I was searching on internet I came across some paint they sell that can be used to convert normal solid doors to equivalent of FD30 fire doors, I wish I had known about this as I had already purchased my door by then, and indeed you will need larger door stops, every council or building control may differ in exact requirements, so it might be best to check with them, but personally a living room and lounge is not a sleeping place so I would not have thought that you would need a fire door there, kitchens only need a fire door if you were renting an HMO, not if you donme a loft conversion and a dormer.

    Check this site for fire resistant and intumescent paint paint : https://www.rawlinspaints.com/home/...-upgrade-kits/1168-fire-door-paint-30min.html

    As for fitting Fire Doors, it is recommended to have an even all around gap of 3mm, to allow a fur lined intumescent strip, the fur helps prevent smoke penetrating through apparently, if assuming the door is still cool and further away from the source of fire, so the intumescent material would not have expanded yet.

    I said apparently, because, whilst the intumescent material tucked inside a grove cut into the frame or alternatively into the door edges, as initially the smoke needs to be prevented from escaping from the gaps, whilst the intumescent strip is still cool, so the fur lining stops that, and when the heat reaches the intumescent strip, only then it would start to expand and seal the gap more strongly.
    But in an experiment, I found a small flaw with this method even though it has not been covered anywhere, initially the heat would first react with what is outside the grove, that means the fur (made of nylon) would heat up and melt into a molten state and run down into a blob, leaving a wide open gap, and then there may be some time like 60 to 90 odd seconds before the intumescent strip had enough time for heat to reach and react with it ( it is well tucked in the door frame or door edge, and wood is a poor conductor of heat, the strip requires about 200C before it reacts!

    So it would start expanding, In my experiment i carried out, by taking two pieces of timber, screwed together forming a 3mm gap between the two and rebated a channel 4mm deep to take the intumescent strip, the furred edge of the strip covered the gap, so when I heated the gap with a hot air gun, this is what happened, the furs melted, then for some time the smoke would just pour out of this gap, for a minute or two, (which caused me some concern) before the int. strip reacted and expanded to seal the gap.
     
    Last edited: 5 Apr 2017
  6. ^woody^

    ^woody^

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2006
    Messages:
    32,362
    Thanks Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    West Mids
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Fire doors go on all habitable rooms off the escape route, and other high risk rooms such as kitchens and some store cupboards and garage. Not bathrooms.

    The linings can be standard softwood for 30 minutes, minimum 30mm lining plus minimum 12mm stop.

    Gaps are typically 3mm sides and top and 7mm bottom. Any more tends to make th edoor non-compliant, unless you can get it certified independantly.
     
  7. Ian H

    Ian H

    Joined:
    14 Sep 2010
    Messages:
    7,023
    Thanks Received:
    851
    Location:
    Rochdale
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    What if you have openings but no doors?
     
  8. Sponsored Links
  9. Mr_T25

    Mr_T25

    Joined:
    1 Mar 2016
    Messages:
    277
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Runcorn
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    ?

    Then you wouldnt need any linings.
     
  10. Ian H

    Ian H

    Joined:
    14 Sep 2010
    Messages:
    7,023
    Thanks Received:
    851
    Location:
    Rochdale
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Ok, what if you had a house that had a kitchen and 2 living room doors, you removed the doors (but not the linings) because they never got opened or closed.

    You then had a loft conversion.

    Would you have to fit fire doors?
     
  11. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

    Joined:
    6 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    3,195
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If it is your own house and you live in it then no compulsion, if you rent it out then some local councils think that tenants lives are more important and precious than yours, or your family's and so you must have smoke detectors fitted and as well as in some situations a Fire Door must be fitted between the kitchen and the rest of the house, and a garage, as well as in some cases of Selective licensing areas, you also need to have fire blanket and fire extinguishers for the tenants, and when you have carried out a loft conversion/dormer then for another strange reason all other doors facing the corridors also must have fire doors, this defies logic since adding one room in loft suddenly makes all other doors non compliant, because now life of occupants of loft room is far more precious than if you didn't have the loft room, and still fires can break in a living room and spread to corridor and your only means of escape might be jump out of first floor windows and break your legs and be carried away on a stretcher and end up in A&E. (sorry I am being sarcastic with how the Authorities think whose life is more important, i.e. Landlords, owner occupiers or the tenants))

    In my view Fire Regulations should apply across the whole range of houses, whether privately owned or rented otherwise and whether you have loft room or not, so life ,means life, life of a tenants is just as important as life of a owner, or a landlord. and I would go one extra life of your pets too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

    Joined:
    26 Aug 2016
    Messages:
    6,308
    Thanks Received:
    875
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Remember you are creating a protected escape route, not protecting the rooms off it. So the doors need to stop the spread of fire into the stair EU
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

    Joined:
    6 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    3,195
    Thanks Received:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    That is True, it is meant to keep the escape route clear of any smoke, one just hopes if an occupant of a room discovered a fire in his room ( e.g. he may have been smoking or using an electrical appliance that sparked and ignited nearby combustible items) and tries to flee the room in panic closes the door after him if they are not fitted with self closers, that is another requirement for fire doors in HMOs and in Kitchens to have self closing doors.
     
  14. DIYnot Local

    DIYnot Local

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2019
    Country:
    United Kingdom

    If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

    Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


    Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

     
Loading...

Share This Page