First time with a router

[mrrusty]

Unfortunately yes, you haven't used the brackets in the way they are designed. Look at the illustrations here https://tinyurl.com/46ysskad which show the brackets fixed to the timbers. The bracket has to be fixed so as the pins slot into the slots the slope of the slot draws the joint together. You have to fix them so that when the pins are bottomed out the timbers are drawn very tightly together.

I don't like brackets, and IMHO you would be better off with cross-dowel bolts which you can tighten up as tight as you want. Only thing is, as previous, if you don't want to see the bolt heads you have to recess them and put plugs in. Personally, I don't mind the heads showing.

 

[Roger465]

Unfortunately yes, you haven't used the brackets in the way they are designed. Look at the illustrations here https://tinyurl.com/46ysskad which show the brackets fixed to the timbers. The bracket has to be fixed so as the pins slot into the slots the slope of the slot draws the joint together. You have to fix them so that when the pins are bottomed out the timbers are drawn very tightly together.

I don't like brackets, and IMHO you would be better off with cross-dowel bolts which you can tighten up as tight as you want. Only thing is, as previous, if you don't want to see the bolt heads you have to recess them and put plugs in. Personally, I don't mind the heads showing.

Ah. I see. I watched a video of somebody else doing it on YT, and he seemed to do it the way I did - I didn't think to question it.

Back to the **** drawing board. Again.

 

[Roger465]

Ah... it seems I have COVID after all. First test when I got ill was negative, now strongly positive This might explain why my judgement has been even more impaired than usual as I've tried to tackle this **** project. My brain has been really foggy...

If I can summon up the energy, I'll try and fit the brackets the right way... only thing is I'm not sure how to position them precisely to get the right amount of tension. Just have to suck it and see, I suppose.

I take your point about the bolts - but I'm so far down this road now I want to finish it, to try and retain a tiny amount of self-respect - I hate being beaten

{update} OK swapped one set around, and sadly not much better. If I position the bracket with the pins at the end of the side member, well, the tapered slot of the other half does kind of draw it in to the post, but not nearly enough to make it all tight and wobble-free.

So it looks like you have to try and experiment with how far back from the end you have to mount that bit... seems a bit crap, to be honest.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes. The left hand piece of your bracket needs to be set back from the end of the rail by the thickness of the right hand side of the bracket, plus an allowance for the "buttons". Normally the manufacturer's web site will have a drawing which states the set back distance

I'm with @mrrusty on the cross dowel bolts - they accommodate seasonal wood movement as well as and wear and tear because if anything starts to get loose, you can easily tighten them. We used to call them Scan bolts (because of where they originated)

 

[Roger465]

Yes. The left hand piece of your bracket needs to be set bavk from the end of the rail by the thickness of thevright hand side of the bracket, plus an allowance for the "buttons". Normally the manufacturer's web site will have a drawing which states the set back distance

Ah, the joys of (a) not knowing what you're doing; (b) buying things on eBay, which are devoid of instructions.

I've just finished re-doing them all, and it all seems quite solid now - the fixing screws aren't that long, so I wonder if they'll work loose in time.

If I were doing it all again, I'd do it differently, I think. But for now, a new bed for £100's worth of wood and a lot of grief seems like not too bad a deal.

Just want to say a big thanks to everybody who helped me here - I'd never have got it done otherwise.

I'll post a pic of the finished bed tomorrow hopefully.

 

[Roger465]

I don't like brackets, and IMHO you would be better off with cross-dowel bolts which you can tighten up as tight as you want. Only thing is, as previous, if you don't want to see the bolt heads you have to recess them and put plugs in. Personally, I don't mind the heads showing.

Well, you were right there; when I sat on the edge of the bed, the bracket pulled its screws out of the leg, and the whole thing collapsed.

After all that, and so many days of hair tearing and effort, I am gutted.

Back to the f'ing drawing board. I accept that I started this job without understanding the challenges involved, so have nobody to blame but myself, but those brackets are really **** - I don't see any way they could ever have been trusted, with such short screws. And longer screws would have gone right through the bed sides.

God knows what I'm going to do now - have dismantled the old bed and moved this one into the bedroom, so will just have to put it all back I guess.

Can't even think how I might use the cross-dowel bolts you mention... from memory of assembling IKEA stuff, they go through the leg, then several inches into the end of the side bars don't they? Then there's a hole drilled into the side bar from the side, and a little threaded metal plug put in, that the long bolt screws into?

I can see two problems with that approach (for me, anyway): (1) I'd have to buy a very long drill, and manage to keep it perfectly in line while I drill through the leg and side bar ; (2) my side bars are only 19mm thick, and I'm not sure they'd handle it, so I might have to start again with thicker ones etc. I'm not filled with confidence in my abilities when I contemplate it

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Bummer! Fair play for coming back to post the results though, I suspect many don't the rest of it looks OK though albeit a bit weedy looking to me. Personally I'd have just gone with my crude but effective suggestion, post No. 6 on the 4th page of this thread, so simple.

 

[opps]

Can't even think how I might use the cross-dowel bolts you mention... from memory of assembling IKEA stuff, they go through the leg, then several inches into the end of the side bars don't they? Then there's a hole drilled into the side bar from the side, and a little threaded metal plug put in, that the long bolt screws into?

I used some recently to fix a 42mm end panel to a worktop. They were from screwfix.

Cam Dowels & Locks | Furniture Fixings | Screwfix

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Initially I tried using an old 16mm spade bit, which probably gave me a 17mm hole.

Based on advice from here I purchased a 15mm brad bit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004WO6E00/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It made life so much easier. Previously I had spent ages working out where the 15mm hole should be, using scraps of timber. Ideally you should rotate the cam by 180 degrees. if your hole is out buy a couple of mm, it messes things up big time. When using the spade bit I even discovered that you can buckle the cam bits and that tightening them would cause the other face to slide away as you tighten the screw.

 

[mrrusty]

cross dowel joint - one of the easiest to make - two holes to drill. I would use 2 cross dowel bolts/joint https://engineeringlearn.com/13-types-of-wood-joints-and-their-uses-with-pictures/

 

[Roger465]

OK, didn't have the balls to start again with a different system, eg cross dowel bolts etc.

So back down to the timber yard and got some of what I should have used first time, ie 32mm PAR rather than 19mm. This of course is (a) much more solid (as Freddie Mercury observed, it was somewhat weedy before), and (b) will also take a decent length of fixing screw for the brackets.

All assembled now - solid as the Rock of Gibraltar.

As regards seasonal movement etc, erm... LA LA LA, I'M NOT LISTENING