Fitting Drayton Wiser kit and bypass valve

[oldbutnotdead]

They don't fight each other. 'Normal' TRVs in a room with a room stat do squabble- it the room stat is calling for heat but the TRVs are satisfied then the boiler will run forever.
The Wiser valves (since each valve can call for heat) don't have that problem.
In your setup (1 big room) you can pair the valves (in the app) if you want to- one less device to program.

 

[dilalio]

It's a valve that bypasses one of the radiators, so the water can flow back to the boiler even when all of the TRVs are off. I don't need one though, as I'm not going to fit TRVs to every radiator.

Why would the two TRVs on the rads in the living room/dining room fight each other unless I create a "room" with the roomstat? If I set them both to 20c for example, then the boiler will come on if the temp at either TRV drops below 20c, or if I want the temperature a bit lower in the living room and set that one to 19c then it will only turn on the boiler if the temperature there drops below that, whilst the dining room one will turn on the boiler if the temperature there drops below 20c.

If the room is open plan with a rad at each end, ie: a through-lounge, with North and south exterior walls, you will get a temperature gradient throughout, one will be calling the other satisfied. This will promote see-sawing and is not ideal. The same goes for a loft conversion which usually has two rads.

https://schneider-electric.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360014548938-If-all-of-my-radiators-have-Wiser-Radiator-Thermostats-do-I-need-the-Room-Thermostat-

 

[Derek M]

I recently installed a wiser system that had 9 rads, UFH and 3 towel rails.
I got the customer to buy an extra wiser TRV that was not connected to any rad but was bound into the system as a device called "towel rails".
In the summer, this is used to bring the boiler on for CH but will only send heat to the towel rails as all the other wiser TRVs will be off demand and the rads they are connected to will remain closed.

As a starter kit for Wiser, you can just put wiser TRVs on the bedroom rads and have them not come on during the winter days, whilst it's on downstairs. This will save energy and money.
Unless you work from home and only want heating on in one room (office), it's not really necessary to have them on all rads. This costs a fair bit too.
I also use smart plugs to extend the comms for the wiser system and suggest customers plug fans into them for upstairs scheduled cooling during the summer months. Opposite of rads for heating in the winter.

For the towel rails, isn't there a cheaper way to do this rather than buying a TRV which you're not going to use as a TRV? Isn't there a standalone temperature sensor that could be used for this?

My parents do use the two spare bedrooms as offices, so for them it makes sense to have TRVs on all three bedroom rads and the living room and dining room rads.

With fans in the summer, they need them running permanently to keep the living room and master bedroom cool, so they don't need smart plugs for that but if they did want to schedule the fans they could use the Tapo/TP-Link smart plugs they've got, which only cost about £14 so much cheaper than the Wiser ones.

My flat gets insanely hot in the summer, about 31c this year and it stayed at 28-29c until last week (today it's 26c), so I leave the fans running permanently too. I'm probably going to install aircon but I need to soundproof the walls first.

 

[dilalio]

For the towel rails, isn't there a cheaper way to do this rather than buying a TRV which you're not going to use as a TRV? Isn't there a standalone temperature sensor that could be used for this?

No. Not as part of the wiser system.
You could use a wiser roomstat but that's more expensive. Only 1 trv is required and doesn't have to be in the bathroom/shower room.

With fans in the summer, they need them running permanently to keep the living room and master bedroom cool, so they don't need smart plugs for that but if they did want to schedule the fans they could use the Tapo/TP-Link smart plugs they've got, which only cost about £14 so much cheaper than the Wiser ones.

But they are not part of the wiser system and will not extend the mesh network if that is required. If network needs extending then smart plugs serve dual purpose. You don't need a fan on all day.

 

[Derek M]

No. Not as part of the wiser system.
You could use a wiser roomstat but that's more expensive. Only 1 trv is required and doesn't have to be in the bathroom/shower room.

OK, I'll have to think about whether it would be better to use the roomstat as an easily accessible way to adjust the living room/dining room temperature, or to use it to control the towel rails. I'll see if the TRVs go on sale for Black Friday and maybe pick up another one then.

But they are not part of the wiser system and will not extend the mesh network if that is required. If network needs extending then smart plugs serve dual purpose. You don't need a fan on all day.

Do the TRVs connect via WifI to the Wiser hub or to any Wifi router? If the latter, I should be OK as the main Wifi router is upstairs and there's another one downstairs that's connected to the main one via Powerline extenders.

 

[dilalio]

Do the TRVs connect via WifI to the Wiser hub or to any Wifi router? If the latter, I should be OK as the main Wifi router is upstairs and there's another one downstairs that's connected to the main one via Powerline extenders.

No. It doesn't work like that.
Wiser devices communicate via rf and the hub then acts as a bridge to the WiFi and Internet.

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/blog/wiser-explains-how-do-you-control-smart-thermostat-using-wi-fi#:~:text=Wiser%20%E2%80%93%20Putting%20You%20In%20Control&text=The%20Heat%20Hub%20communicates%20with,and%20your%20home%20stays%20warm.

 

[Derek M]

If my Dad ignored all of my advice and warnings and wired the hub up to the boiler himself, assuming that he wired it up correctly using the appropriate cabling, what safety and legal implications might there be? Would it cause any major problems at the next service, or would it just make it a bit more expensive because the engineer will need to check and sign off that it's safe if my Dad can't produce a record of that being done by an engineer when it was installed?

 

[dilalio]

Next service. Boiler will be tested for safety... Which is all that's usually done by the nationals. Then, whoever services it will have been the last to touch it.

 

[Derek M]

Next service. Boiler will be tested for safety... Which is all that's usually done by the nationals. Then, whoever services it will have been the last to touch it.

Thanks. I'll check when the next service is due. Hopefully it's soon!

Regarding the TRVs, I read a tip that said it's a good idea when installing them to make sure the valve-body pins are free by using a pair of pliers to shift them up and down a few times with a little WD40, so the motors don't have quite as much work to do. However I think I read somewhere else not to accidentally pull the pin out as that will cause water to leak, but maybe there's a pin on the TRV and a pin on the radiator and the latter comment is referring to the one on the radiator. So is there a pin on the TRV that I should loosen up before I install it?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Thanks. I'll check when the next service is due. Hopefully it's soon!

Regarding the TRVs, I read a tip that said it's a good idea when installing them to make sure the valve-body pins are free by using a pair of pliers to shift them up and down a few times with a little WD40, so the motors don't have quite as much work to do. However I think I read somewhere else not to accidentally pull the pin out as that will cause water to leak, but maybe there's a pin on the TRV and a pin on the radiator and the latter comment is referring to the one on the radiator. So is there a pin on the TRV that I should loosen up before I install it?

Nope. Just the pin on the valve body. If you push the pin in it should return on it's own so don't pull up on it

 

[Derek M]

My Dad's fitted most of the TRVs now but he can't get the old one off the living room radiator. He says he's tried all manner of tools (spanners and wrenches I think, I don't remember exactly what he said) and it won't budge.

Is this something that a plumber would have a special tool for that would make this quite an easy job, or is it likely to involve something more severe and expensive like cutting something off and replacing it?

 

[CBW]

Apply heat or cut off for anything that won’t budge, but I would normally try my footprint wrench and or knipex grips 1st.

 

[dilalio]

Set it to highest setting to aid removal.
Also push down on it whilst undoing the ring.

 

[Derek M]

Apply heat or cut off for anything that won’t budge, but I would normally try my footprint wrench and or knipex grips 1st.

Set it to highest setting to aid removal.
Also push down on it whilst undoing the ring.

Thanks guys, I'll pass your suggestions on.