Flag dynamics

[SUNRAY]

I think you are misusing for your own gain the words 'reality' and 'most'.

Seems to be a regular situation for him.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'm not seeking to impose restrictions on what anybody may do regarding flying flags.

Just pointing out the reality of what flying the Union Jack and the flag of St. George has come to signify in most cases, a reality which no amount of hand-wringing or bluster can change, and a reality which means that those who do not have RWR views will be correct most of the time if they regard those who fly those flags as having such views.

It might be a good idea, for you to leave the UK, and go live in Palestine!

 

[JohnW2]

I wonder what is the reality of most people's views on seeing your avatar and signature.

Whilst, as I hope you understand, I totally agree with most of what has been said ('on our side') of this discussion, I do have sympathy with his signature ...

... it does seem very heavy-handed to tar an organisation with the brush of "terrorism" when they have not (at least, not yet) done anything which most people would regard as 'terrorism' (I don't think that damaging the engines of warplanes would qualify in most people's minds). This seems unnecessary and 'unfair' but, perhaps worse, may result in some people coming to regard the risk of 'true terrorism' less seriously.

 

[morqthana]

As before, I don't really think that we (the great majority of the population) should allow tiny minorities to 'win' by resulting in such self-imposed 'restriction' of what should be our freedom of choice ...

That is of course up to them.

I just think they would be advised to carefully consider their motives. To consider just what they are hoping to show support for, what "message" they are hoping to send. And to consider if reality makes it actually counter-productive, if they will be seen as supporting the opposite of what they want, if their message will be interpreted to be opposing the one they want to send.

 

[JohnW2]

That is of course up to them. .... I just think they would be advised to carefully consider their motives. To consider just what they are hoping to show support for, what "message" they are hoping to send. And to consider if reality makes it actually counter-productive, if they will be seen as supporting the opposite of what they want, if their message will be interpreted to be opposing the one they want to send.

Yes, I understand all that. However, I still think it undesirable that, if avoidable, we should allow a tiny minority to 'win' by allowing their actions/behaviour to modify the behaviour (and hence effectively reduce the 'free choice') of the majority.

There are unfortunately many situations in which we have little/no choice but to accept the 'winning by a tiny minority' (e.g. in terms of closing/locking the doors and windows of houses/cars etc. and the hassle of things like airport etc. security and 'cyber security'), but I still think it preferable to 'not let them win' when that is avoidable.

In situations such as we are discussion, there are at least two ways of addressing the problem. One can, as you have done, advise the majority not to do what the tiny majority does, for fear of thereby being thought to be part of the tiny minority, and doing the something for the reasons that the minority do it. However, the alternative strategy would be to encourage the majority to do the 'something' - if a substantial proportion of the public were to fly English flags, then that behaviour would cease to imply anything 'negative' or undesirable (and the tiny minority would probably stip doing it, because it would no longer achieve anything for them).

 

[morqthana]

It saddens me to read this, What Harry has done is to show support and love for his country

Has he? Or has he shown love and support for ideologies which run counter to all the decent things this country should stand for?

How dare you say otherwise

I dare because I can see the views he champions in his posts in GD. And they are not ones which reflect the values I would like to see as those of the UK.

and how arrogant of you to class anyone of being otherwise whilst you blatantly have an avatar of the Palestinian flag

Can you show me where I'll find you criticising fillyboy for his avatar like that?

A handful of thugs who have used the union flag as an excuse to riot does not mean that we should all now condemn our patriotism and pride in favour of your views. Beggers belief.

Is your "patriotism and pride", for example an unequivocal support for values such as liberal attitudes, welcoming kindness to strangers and a total rejection of all forms of bigotry and prejudices?

If not then there's nothing in your vision for what this country should be to be proud of, only ashamed.

 

[Highway Man]

.

Has he? Or has he shown love and support for ideologies which run counter to all the decent things this country should stand for?

Harry shows his support for disagreeing with your own views. You have to understand or at least acknowledge that your own opinions are not the only opinion and you cannot speak for others in the way you seem to think

 

[morqthana]

Removing the flag of your home country is a treacherous act, of which your great grandparents would be deeply ashamed.

Consider how deeply ashamed they would be to see the flag co-opted by murderous thugs who support an ideology which they gave lives and limbs to fight against.

 

[Highway Man]

I went out today to feed the donkeys at the sanctuary, I drove down a 4 mile stretch of road that every lamp post had a union flag flying on it. They wasn’t there last night. I drove down that road feeling very proud. Not one thought entered my head that a set of thugs had done it.

 

[morqthana]

Not one thought entered my head that a set of thugs had done it.

Imagine my surprise.

 

[Highway Man]

Imagine my surprise.

Very smug of you. Imagine my surprise.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Has he? Or has he shown love and support for ideologies which run counter to all the decent things this country should stand for?

As I suggested some while ago, I've had it in mind for years, to devise a flag pole, and fly a Union Flag upon it. The present situation, and number of foreign to the UK flags I see, for instance, that of the avatar of morqthana - simply prompted me to get on with it recently.

I am equally dismayed, by fillyboys avatat, should it be any consolation?

To be clear - no I don't watch GB News, bother with tic-tok, or watch weird video on Youtube, to determine my opinion. Nor do I support the extremist Tommy Robinson.

 

[Ollyfp]

Consider how deeply ashamed they would be to see the flag co-opted by murderous thugs who support an ideology which they gave lives and limbs to fight against.

I'm trying to get to the essence of this. As I understand it, you'd throw your country's flag to the ground in temper and jump all over it because [in your opinion] a few people may have used it inappropriately?
Remember when Geri Halliwell adorned herself in the Union Jack?
I certainly do!

 

[pete01]

Remember when Geri Halliwell adorned herself in the Union Jack?

Yes oh how I miss the 90's....now a school girl wears Geri's dress to a school fancy dress and gets sent home.....ridiculous

 

[morqthana]

As I understand it, you'd throw your country's flag to the ground in temper and jump all over it because [in your opinion] a few people may have used it inappropriately?

That's one of the most bizarre, laughably incorrect, "understandings" I've ever seen.