Flat convertion

[SALL2009]

I am looking at buying a property that has been converted into 3 flats. I am not sure if the conversion was done with planning permission or not.

How can I workout when this conversion took place. I want to find out if the property has been used as flats for 4 years, then I can apply for permitted use.

Any help with be appreciated.

 

[garyo]

Your local authority website will allow you to search for recent applications - how long ago do you think the conversion was made?

The last 12 months worth are here : http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/public/localinfo/applicationsearch/

 

[TicklyT]

Can you search the local authority planning records for any applications for change of use?

Ours has about the last 10 years worth available on line.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[Shytalkz]

FMT you are a sarky git at times

 

[SALL2009]

Aren’t you clever freddymercurystwin.

The whole point of the thread was to try to find a way to date the conversion without asking planning or building control departments.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Well as you'd not bought it yet are you saying you may go ahead and buy it if it did not have permission? I very much doubt you'll ring any alarm bells of your local Planning department by simply ringing them up and asking what applications have been made for a particular address. BTW its 7 years for a change of use not 4 if you're thinking the LA won't care about a conversion per se. Have you asked the current owners? If they 'do not know', that probably answers your question and if you've not asked them then why not? Online planning searches can be unreliable at the best of times. What was the result of your online search?

 

[Thermo]

Aren’t you clever freddymercurystwin.

The whole point of the thread was to try to find a way to date the conversion without asking planning or building control departments.

you didnt say that though did you! and whats the point?

 

[SALL2009]

The property is a repossession and it is quite hard to get any information from the agent. Search on planning portal produced no result. I have looked at the Home information Pack today; there is no record of any application for planning permission. There is an application for building regulations for an extension in 1995, but no completion certificate.

I have searched the LA planning site for similar applications on the same road and have found one that was refused. I think parking might be an issue because there are only 2 parking spaces on the driveway.

The fittings in the place look quite dated, so I want to find ways to workout the rough time of the conversion. I would be grateful for any suggestions.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Well just because you cannot find it on the system does not necessarily mean a successful application was not made, this is why you should phone. All you need say is 'I'm thinking of buying it and adding an extension, can you tell me if you've ever had any applications made on it".

OK, assuming permission to convert was not granted and it happened longer than 7 years ago, to prove when the conversion happened you will need one or more of the following:

1) A signed affidavits from a previous tenant
2) Proof from the council tax department that separate addresses exist for the property and council tax was paid for each flat.
3) Proof that the flats existed by showing that they have their own water/gas/elec meters etc and when these meters were installed.

Showing fittings in the flats are 'a bit old' is unlikely to wash. You need proper proof.

If you cannot provide any of the above you are open to potential action from the local authority, they can insist you put in a retrospective application of apply an enforcement order to change it back into a dwelling.

The reason I know this is I've been through all of the above on behalf of a client.

1. Client buys flats at auction.
2. Client realises flats do not have planning permission.
3. Client speaks to planners as somehow (its never explained to me) they have got wind of the fact that its been converted.
4. Planners suggest retrospective application is applied for and crucially will be successful if applied for.
5. I am appointed to put together application for them.
6. At their request I also take Pre-Application advise from the Planners and am also advised application will be successful.
7. Application is refused on 5 different items several of which cannot be argued with under an appeal meaning an appeal is a complete waste of time and will have zero chance of success.
8. Client is now in limbo and praying to God they do not get nasty letter through the post.

Realistically given the climate we live in it is unlikely any action will be taken but that is your chance to take and they would have to find out first of course. If you're the kind of person who worrys about this sort of thing then its probably not for you, if you're the chancer type of person then fill 'yer boots!

Thats why a simple phone call can confirm what you need to know.

 

[SALL2009]

Thanks for your reply. I will call them and ask.

The property is a very good investment as flats and is not too bad even as a single house. So I am thinking of running with it, as it is. If the planning ever made an issue, I guess I can convert back to single dwelling.

So am right in thinking that the worst they can do is to make you convert back to a single dwelling? How much time do they give you? Because if there are tenants in the flats, it would take a while to make the property vacant again.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Long enough to be able to dish out the tenants, pretty unlikely though.

 

[SALL2009]

Long enough to be able to dish out the tenants, pretty unlikely though.

What would be pretty unlikely, that enforcement would be taken?

I was looking at my local authority’s website about enforcements. In this year they have only done 25 enforcements, so that doesn't sound too bad considering it’s a big council and I'm assuming they only do it, if it’s a major breach.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Long enough to be able to dish out the tenants, pretty unlikely though.

What would be pretty unlikely, that enforcement would be taken?

Yes but it is a risk and its your choice to make.

 

[SALL2009]

Thanks. Yeah I realise that.