Flat roof to be replaced by a pitched roof.

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Invernesshire
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I am considering replacing the flat roof on my kitchen extension into a pitched roof but am not sure if thats the best idea. The flat roof is leaking badly and no matter what it has to be replaced. Everest gave me a quote for £9000(6mx4m) to replace the roof. The flat roof merges into the existing pitched roof which was why I thought if the extension became pitched it would be easier to seal and less likely in the future to leak.

Any ideas?

John
 
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If you can get the pitch up to approx 15 degrees or above it shouldnt be a problem...depending on the roof covering you want.

A pic would help.
 
Hi John87

converting your flat roof to pitched isnt a bad idea as long as its in keeping with the style of your home and you can get a decent pitch. its certainly worth exploring various options buts its likely to be quite expensive.

However, modern flat roof coverings offer exceptional lifespans and guarantess to back it up. They certainly dont need to be as expensive as your quote from Everest, which to be quite frank is ridiculous. I assume this is their non-discounted price? Ask for a cheaper price and watch them halve it almost immediately!!

To give you an idea of what we would charge for a 6m x 4m roof see the following:

- rip up old felt and inspect deck and joist for damage,
- fit 120mm Celotex Insulation to meet current regs,
- inform local Building Control of works,
- fit new OSB3 timber deck,
- fit replacement fascias and guttering,
- apply EPDM (firestone) singly ply membrane
- Guarantee for 20 years. However these types of roof are expected to last in excess of 50 years which is a proven fact.

Total price inc of vat = £3350

I dont even consider our service to be cheap but it is fully comprehensive with no nasty extras. There will be companies out there offering the above for even less but its a fine line between a reasonably priced job that lasts and one that is super cheap and will need replacing due to bad workmanship.

Hope that gives some perspective on the flat roofing option.
 
Hi John87


To give you an idea of what we would charge for a 6m x 4m roof see the following:

- rip up old felt and inspect deck and joist for damage
- fit 120mm Celotex Insulation to meet current regs,
- inform local Building Control of works,
- fit new OSB3 timber deck,
- fit replacement fascias and guttering,
- apply EPDM (firestone) singly ply membrane
- Guarantee for 20 years. However these types of roof are expected to last in excess of 50 years which is a proven fact.

Total price inc of vat = £3350

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

I dont even consider our service to be cheap but it is fully comprehensive with no nasty extras. There will be companies out there offering the above for even less but its a fine line between a reasonably priced job that lasts and one that is super cheap and will need replacing due to bad workmanship.



:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Proven fact my arse, show me a 50 year old EPDM roof, they don't exist. :LOL:
 
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Without wanting to detract from the OP's original question the first EPDM was installed in 1965 - so yes, ok, technically it is not quite 50 years old but is certianly in its fifth decade.

What has been done numerous times by several independant testing bodies from around the world is taking a sample of 30-40 year old EPDM and artificially aging it further in labs to see how its elongation, flexibility and breaking point characteristics are affected by constant UV and ozone exposure. Test results prove without doubt that EPDM has a life expectancy well in excess of 50 years. Some reports have noted that life span could be as much as 100 years.

Further to this point, modern EPDM has made significant improvements to its manufacturing formula to make it ever more stable, with particular focus on the splicing and flashing techniques. In addition, installation details have been improved to ensure even the largest of roofs can be accomodated without problems caused by expansion/contraction.

Bear in mind that EPDM successfully covers commercial roofs that are in excess of 1000's of square metres in all climates. Im pretty sure a 24m2 roof in sunny Britain wont fail anytime soon! (unless its installed badly which is a different matter altogether)
 
If I can interrupt ATB's promotional speech for just one second, then i would like to add that going for a pitched roof need not be all that expensive in terms of comparative flattie replacements.

The most expensive pitched fella would be say a plain clay tile with a lot of lead detailing with a hip and a valley thrown in for good measure. However, a simple lean-to with concrete interlocking tiles need not be a great deal more than a flat replacement.

A well installed three layer felt system can outlast most peoples' stay at any one dwelling in any case. We see 25+ years out of our flatties, when installed by a decent pro.
 
Wasn't intended as a promotional speech I was just backing up a previous claim that was challenged.

I did say previously that modern roof coverings will all last well, as long as they are installed correctly. This includes modern felt but IMO I would still choose GRP or EPDM over felt. But each to their own.
 
As previously, show me a 50 year old EPDM roof? You can't, and do you know why, they've all failed. The early ones lasted 5 years if you were lucky. I spent 3 years at Brent Cross Shopping Centre stripping up 16000 M2 of it after it failed prematurely.

Installed exactly as specified, but due to inability to suffer thermal movement over a long period it rippled and separated on the seams.

The details also failed early due to different temperature absorbtion to the flat areas, and shading of upstands again leading to thermal stress causing de bonding.

On top of that, we have also stripped up over a 100 schools over the last 30 years covered not only in EPDM, but also GRP systems.

You contradict yourself saying;



In addition, installation details have been improved to ensure even the largest of roofs can be accomodated without problems caused by expansion/contraction.

You've just identified there have been known issues. EPDM as a material may well have a 50 year lifespan, the products that bond it do not.

And after 50 years, it will not be in the same shape form as when it was laid.

A single sheet on a back addition may well last a while, but it is usually installed by builders, not roofers.

While understanding that people have to earn a tanner the best way they can, touting something as something it is not is wrong.

As Noseall has said, a pitch conversion is not that expensive and will always look better than a flat roof.
Everest have undoubtedly attempted to rip the OP off, thats why he's here. Not for a sales pitch.
 
The op is in Inverness an area which I don't cover so I'm not touting for business. I was shocked to see that they was quoted £9000 for a job that was worth nowhere near that much. I was explaining the benefits of a system which is in use and may be an alternative option to a pitched roof. I gave them a price so they had something a bit more reasonable to compare further pitched roof quotes with.

No product is ever invented perfect from the outset and will undergo a continuous period of improvement.

If EPDM wasn't any good then why do they sell and install so much of it. Why are EPDM companies multi nationals that are doing great business. If it wasn't any good they would be out of business pretty quickly.

I take your point about the bonding adhesive failing on massive roofs but systems nowadays have all manner of base tie in details that basically negate stress on joints.

You can say what you want but EPDM is still always going to be better than felt.
 
Look matey I'm bored of arguing with you now. You are obviously biased towards your preferred system and I am towards ours. You seem to spend your time lifting up EPDM and I spend my time lifting up felt so go figure.

For an overall best solution for the domestic market it would be interesting to have several identical roofs each covered in a different system. Apart from the obvious longevity competition it'd be interesting to compare them for the following:

General appearance after a 20 year period of weather exposure,
Any notable problems produced from expansion and contraction
Sounds from heavy rainfall, hail or expansion
How quickly snow melts - does the membrane influence this at all
How quickly it takes to drain rainwater and dry up
Resistance to moss and lichen growth
Any problems with interstitial condensation
Resistance to maintenance foot traffic especially in the extremes of hot and cold weather
Resistance to impact from a falling roof tile
And anything else I've forgotten.
 
Most domestic roofs can be fitted with a single sheet, no joins, no mess, zero risk of fire from gas torches, remain flexible so building movements are accommodated, long lasting, UV and Ozone stable with little to no deterioration, will not go brittle or blister, have a low environmental impact and the cost to expected lifespan ratio is very good. Not to mention water drainage is excellent due to its smooth surface and therefore makes any leaves or moss very easy to sweep off.
 

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