Foreign workers

[splinter]

Softus ,
all I can say at the moment is ,you are lucky that you can adjust you're buisness to stay profitable ,all I can do is take a severe cut to my income .You might be aware that most construction workers are self employed but have worked for the same companies for many years .They are now being offered wages that are as little a third of what they have been use to.But like you said thats life and I must stop whinging about it

 

[Zampa]

Seeing as you (BAS) beleive that anyone who makes any sort of comment regarding the amount of foreigners coming in the UK..ITS A RACIST or a FACIST..I thought Id find some definations of the word...just you can understand 'things' better

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Racism refers to a belief system that humans can be separated into various groups based on physical attributes and that these groupings determine cultural or individual achievement

Racist, a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others

racism, racialism, racial discrimination discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

I have NEVER once displayed any suggestion that we are the master race..the Britsh or the whites..

And as ive said before but your selective memory has trouble in dealing with..

I treat everyone equal..I have black relations, I dont 'tollerate' foreigners I get on fine with them..I will never and have never voted for the BNP ..I laughed when some horrible little skinhead got a clump at a football match becasue he was handing out NF leaflets

I think your issue it the fact that you see anyone who has an opinion about the race issue as a racist/nazi/facist..even though ..according to the defintions..they arnt..and you see it as becoming 'one of them'...someone..lower than yourself.

Too scared to admit there is a problem with the amount of illigal/legal immigrants coming here...will that put you in the same class as the rest of us?

Im not overly patriotic..and I think some of this countries expliots in the past are shameful to say the least.

But I am concerned about this issue of foreign labour..if that makes me...and many thousands of 'ordinary people' racists then so be it..

Just remember when Tony and Gordon say...thats it...no more...dont forget to write to them and tell them they are facist nazis too..

Oh one more defination...

bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

 

[Softus]

Softus ,
all I can say at the moment is ,you are lucky that you can adjust you're buisness to stay profitable

I'm conscious of my good fortune, thankful for my current good health, and I do sympathise with your plight. I wish you all the best splinter.

But I am concerned about this issue of foreign labour..if that makes me...and many thousands of 'ordinary people' racists then so be it..

Zampa, there's a fine line between racism and xenophobia. The following comment that you made is, at the very least, anti-social:

.....I take it you are happy for foreign migrants to continue entering this country..and bleeding the welfare state dry?...

I've noticed that quite a few forum members assume that the net effect of immigrants to the country is a drain on the country's resources. Why do you, or they, assume anything if you, or they, are not racist or xenophobic?

 

[JulieL/B]

BAS, if immigration is a good thing.....I take it you are happy for foreign migrants to continue entering this country..and bleeding the welfare state dry?...

at least now nobody can be in any doubt about your racist prejudices.

Well, having read Zampas post I believe he is expressing his own views, just as you do - some of what he says is true, no matter how much you don't like to hear or believe it.

Indeed, working for the health service I have seen many more health inequalities relating to the people that are born in this Country than those who come from the outside - this is a fact as I have recently researched this topic in depth for one of my Masters assignments.

Also, many of the asylum seekers who I know have come here, not to flee persecution as they claim on their application to stay - but to benefit from the health service and social security.
I know this because they have told me so.
Some have even said they have no intention of working ever.

In view of what experiences I have had with these people it would be easy for me to say - 'they are all scroungers' - but I genuinely believe in my heart that this isn't true - unfortunately though, it is the minority that give the ones in dire need a bad name and subsequent hostile reactions from the rest the public.
I hate to say this but unless the mainstream parties get to grip with the immigration situation then the public will vote for such parties as the BNP in order to be heard - several black friends of mine 2nd/3rd generation West Indians have even said they will vote for the BNP - because of the current situation re immigration and asylum

Whatever, your personal opinions are, immigration and asylum has to be tackled more stringently and quickly by the government before the extreme right wing parties are elected into powerful postions - with devastating consequences for those with genuine need.

 

[pickles]

It has been said that immigrants mainly do low paid or dirty work that we don't want.

It has also been suggested we welcome this as it gives us cheaper goods and services.

In my area most foreigners seem to work in, the building trade/drive taxis or buses/cleaning/hotels/supermarkets/burger bars/take aways/the post office or petrol stations.

When was the last time anyone on here saw a reduction in prices, as a consequence of this labour, at any of the above?

Get real people, if there are cost savings in employing foreign labour these savings are pocketed by the employers.

They are not being passed on and the suggestion we somehow save money is a fallacy.
---------------------------------------------

The health service is also a big user of foreign labour(mainly cleaners)and its been said they couldn't manage without these people.

Take out the plus 50% on the bill privateer's and middlemen and use the costs saved to pay better wages. This may then make it more worthwhile for our own people to do this work and save importing foreign labour.

The working man and woman needs to see whats truly going on here. The Gov in cahoots with the EU is deliberately creating this situation as a way of driving costs down. It may only be hitting certain sectors at the moment, hence the selfish types aren't all that bothered, but you lot will get your turn so don't cry foul when it happens.

This post as been BASerised for spelling mistakes.

You are getting a reduction in prices. The supermarkets buy products from firms that cut labour costs to a minimum to compete amongst themselves and then use the reduced costs to compete with other supermarkets for our business. It is obviously cheaper to use labour which has no expectations about rights than to use an indigenous work force that does, That's why call centres are in India etc not the UK and why foreign labour comes here. there is a demand for their labour. It's classic laissez Faire capitalism at work

Why do you need a conspiracy theory to explain it. The situation is created and driven by simple economic forces. We have no car industry because foreign cars were cheaper and better, likewise with ships and hi fi's and all the other things that come from abroad now. We became un competitve because of our labour costs and lost our industry. Who would pay 30 or 40 per cent more for something made in the uk, no one, the fact of the matter is everyone wants to pay as little as possible

All that is happening now is a logical extension of that, Cheap labour from abroad has discovered that it is more competitve and is coming here to fill a demand that already exists. If you threw them all out there would be virtually no nurses doctors or cleaners in the NHS, no bus drivers or taxi drivers, no one to gut the chickens you want to buy at your local supermarket. In time people who were born here might fill the gap but they would expect pensions, trade unions and all the other rights that the law gives them and which drive up costs. You would end up paying significantly more for everything you want

The cab drivers and cleaners you mention are a very good example of the point I am making. there are no qualifications needed for these jobs but they are all done by foreigners. What's to stop a person born in the uk from doing these jobs, the answer is "absolutely nothing". they are not doing it either because they don't have to or because they don't want to because they don't like the pay or conditions.

 

[pickles]

Indeed, working for the health service I have seen many more health inequalities relating to the people that are born in this Country than those who come from the outside - this is a fact as I have recently researched this topic in depth for one of my Masters assignments.

What sort of health inequalities have you seen

 

[JulieL/B]

What sort of health inequalities have you seen

Pickles, I'll post some information about this later in the week (if this thread hasn't been locked by then ) as it will take me too long to write now as I need to get cracking typing up some assignments - I have 3 peices of work due in on Wednesday and I've only completed one up to now!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Seeing as you (BAS) beleive that anyone who makes any sort of comment regarding the amount of foreigners coming in the UK..ITS A RACIST or a FACIST..I thought Id find some definations of the word...just you can understand 'things' better

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Racism refers to a belief system that humans can be separated into various groups based on physical attributes and that these groupings determine cultural or individual achievement

Racist, a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others

racism, racialism, racial discrimination discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

Try this one, (with a few emphases of mine to help you focus):

Any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life

I have NEVER once displayed any suggestion that we are the master race..the Britsh or the whites..

No. You don't have to be a white supremacist to be a racist.

But you have made complaints about foreign migrants "entering this country and bleeding the welfare state dry".

You've complained about people being unable to get a council place "because they have all gone to eastern europeans etc".

You've complained about governments or politicians "giving ethnics priority over people born and bred here".

That sort of thing, and particularly that sort of language, is indicative of racism

I think your issue it the fact that you see anyone who has an opinion about the race issue as a racist/nazi/facist

No - not anyone, only people who use language like yours.

But I am concerned about this issue of foreign labour..if that makes me...and many thousands of 'ordinary people' racists then so be it..

Good start. They do say that an important foundation for recovery is to stop being in denial.

Oh one more defination...

bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

That's not what my dictionary says, but there you go. And it's a bit simplistic to say that someone cannot find an opposing belief intolerable without being a bigot.

 

[splinter]

BAS ,do you think the standard of living will improve for the UK resident with such a large influx of "cheap" labour from Eastern Europe

 

[markie]

BIGOT = NARROW MINDED INTOLERANT PERSON =.....?

 

[paulbrown]

It has been said that immigrants mainly do low paid or dirty work that we don't want.

It has also been suggested we welcome this as it gives us cheaper goods and services.

In my area most foreigners seem to work in, the building trade/drive taxis or buses/cleaning/hotels/supermarkets/burger bars/take aways/the post office or petrol stations.

When was the last time anyone on here saw a reduction in prices, as a consequence of this labour, at any of the above?

Get real people, if there are cost savings in employing foreign labour these savings are pocketed by the employers.

They are not being passed on and the suggestion we somehow save money is a fallacy.
---------------------------------------------

The health service is also a big user of foreign labour(mainly cleaners)and its been said they couldn't manage without these people.

Take out the plus 50% on the bill privateer's and middlemen and use the costs saved to pay better wages. This may then make it more worthwhile for our own people to do this work and save importing foreign labour.

The working man and woman needs to see whats truly going on here. The Gov in cahoots with the EU is deliberately creating this situation as a way of driving costs down. It may only be hitting certain sectors at the moment, hence the selfish types aren't all that bothered, but you lot will get your turn so don't cry foul when it happens.

This post as been BASerised for spelling mistakes.

You are getting a reduction in prices. The supermarkets buy products from firms that cut labour costs to a minimum to compete amongst themselves and then use the reduced costs to compete with other supermarkets for our business. It is obviously cheaper to use labour which has no expectations about rights than to use an indigenous work force that does, That's why call centres are in India etc not the UK and why foreign labour comes here. there is a demand for their labour. It's classic laissez Faire capitalism at work

Why do you need a conspiracy theory to explain it. The situation is created and driven by simple economic forces. We have no car industry because foreign cars were cheaper and better, likewise with ships and hi fi's and all the other things that come from abroad now. We became un competitve because of our labour costs and lost our industry. Who would pay 30 or 40 per cent more for something made in the uk, no one, the fact of the matter is everyone wants to pay as little as possible

All that is happening now is a logical extension of that, Cheap labour from abroad has discovered that it is more competitve and is coming here to fill a demand that already exists. If you threw them all out there would be virtually no nurses doctors or cleaners in the NHS, no bus drivers or taxi drivers, no one to gut the chickens you want to buy at your local supermarket. In time people who were born here might fill the gap but they would expect pensions, trade unions and all the other rights that the law gives them and which drive up costs. You would end up paying significantly more for everything you want

The cab drivers and cleaners you mention are a very good example of the point I am making. there are no qualifications needed for these jobs but they are all done by foreigners. What's to stop a person born in the uk from doing these jobs, the answer is "absolutely nothing". they are not doing it either because they don't have to or because they don't want to because they don't like the pay or conditions.

Whenever possible I shop (and insure) with the Co-op, because of their ethical promises.

Can you actually and truthfully quote one single area where your assertion is true and proven?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS ,do you think the standard of living will improve for the UK resident with such a large influx of "cheap" labour from Eastern Europe

Do you think that there should be no opportunities for any tradesman to compete on price? That the Government should produce an official price list for everything, and that's what everyone has to charge?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BIGOT = NARROW MINDED INTOLERANT PERSON =.....?

I am anything but narrow minded.

But it is true - I confess - you've found me out - I do find racism and fascism intolerable.

 

[markie]

BIGOT = NARROW MINDED INTOLERANT PERSON =.....?

I am anything but narrow minded.

But it is true - I confess - you've found me out - I do find racism and fascism intolerable.

Where/when did i call you a bigot, ?

 

[markie]

BAS ,do you think the standard of living will improve for the UK resident with such a large influx of "cheap" labour from Eastern Europe

Do you think that there should be no opportunities for any tradesman to compete on price? That the Government should produce an official price list for everything, and that's what everyone has to charge?

Bas why do you answer a question with a question, and not a answer, ?