Foreign workers

[WoodYouLike]

Well Slogger, we seem to agree on some points (I left the ones in the quote underneath, just to make you understand which ones)

the eu isnt working for us so the sooner we go our own merry way the better

take a look at the euro to the pound now ? we are being systemattically undervalued

so many things happening now with jobs leaving the uk lets say to manufacturers and employers IF YOU LEAVE HERE YOU CANT SELL HERE

keep british jobs in britain

On the one of manuf. leaving the UK let's also get all the subsidies back!

 

[Zampa]

Ive tried to resist a comment on this subject..its been done to death IMO but one question..

BAS, if immigration is a good thing.....I take it you are happy for foreign migrants to continue entering this country..and bleeding the welfare state dry?...

We current have some 1.5 million unemployed..if you look at a country like a business would it be right to take on more staff even though you didnt have the work to give them?

Do we continue letting people in...when it appears there is no work to offer them?

And one question you manage to dodge every time...when will enough foreigner be enough...when would you like to close the doors?

If someone undercut your wages and offered to do your job for peanuts..how would you react...would you say 'oh wonderful...you cant beat multicultural society can you...let another couple of million in for good measure'

If you like other cultures so much have you ever considered moving abroad? and leaving with them permanatly?....you dont seem tobe one iota proud of being British.

 

[Softus]

...one question..

Zampa, assuming that the one question was to b-a-s, and the rest to the forum in general, I have some comments.

We current have some 1.5 million unemployed..if you look at a country like a business would it be right to take on more staff even though you didnt have the work to give them?

You imply that the figure of 1.5 million comprises only demand-deficient unemployment, which, generally, inversely reflects the state of the economy.

However, many people are structurally unemployed, as a result of the changing nature of the industry in the UK, and the lag in providing the right skills to suit that change.

Aso, an unknown number of people are fraudulently unemployed, providing either services within the black economy, or nothing because they have no intention of ever lifting a finger to earn their own way in life.

I have no confidence in the accuracy of the claim that immigrant workers are taking jobs that would otherwise be offered to the unemployed. I suspect that it's just a myth.

Do we continue letting people in...when it appears there is no work to offer them?

Your statement is a non-sequitor - why would they want to come here if there was no work to do?

And one question you manage to dodge every time...when will enough foreigner be enough...when would you like to close the doors?

This is one is clearly for b-a-s, but you've made it into a childishly impossible question, because the doors aren't currently open for just anyone. Illegal immigrants, who are discovered, are deported.

If someone undercut your wages and offered to do your job for peanuts..how would you react...would you say 'oh wonderful...you cant beat multicultural society can you...let another couple of million in for good measure'

This is another hypothesis that doesn't hold water. An employee in this country has employments rights, and quite a lot of them. A company can't just dismiss someone on the grounds that someone else would be cheaper. They could reduce wages if the ground are that the company would otherwise be at risk of closure, but the type of wage-gazumping that you describe is not [yet] a real phenomenon.

If you like other cultures so much have you ever considered moving abroad? and leaving with them permanatly?....you dont seem tobe one iota proud of being British.

What, exactly, does "being British" mean? I suspect everyone has their own definition. I like this country, but sometimes I like the newcomers to it much more than the complacent and arrogant natives, who seem to believe that we have a divine right to everything gained as part of Britain's "education" of other countries. The invasion of Iraq included an official British contingent - are you proud of that?

 

[splinter]

Softus ,I wouldn't say that people are being dismissed because someone can do the job cheaper,but what is happening in the building industry is that easten europeans are doing the job for less money making it less attractive to the likes of me.by doing this they are creating employment for themselves ,not what you are saying that there must be excess work otherwise they wouldn't be here
How many of the uneployed do you think are claiming frauduantly thousands hundreds of thousands?

 

[joe-90]

How comes you keep ranting on about the island being full and employing migrant workers is no good for the economy etc etc, but then you offer this advice to someone who wants to know how to do some skirting?

Timber = £50.

Polish joiner = £50.



joe

Double standards?

No. Realism. I might use a few to do my donkey-work and pay them peanuts. Why should I care that this country is going down the pan?

joe

Moderator Note

I have already made one annoucemnet concerning this post, and i have so far had to delete two posts which were unacceptable, in either content or in the way they addressed another member on this forum. I will not give anymore warnings the post will simply be locked if it carrys on in this way. Any subsequent posts attempting to resurrect it will also be deleted. The choice is yours. Have a healthy debate with respect for other members and the rules or have it deleted.

 

[Brightness]

I think a lot of the problems aren't foreign workers coming into UK but British industry seling out. As WYL has said...

Can I add something to this? Every one who is in favour of blocking cheap labourers coming in will they also block cheap products coming in????
That's ruining many businesses also, but is part of normal economics: protectionism will never ever make a country wealthier in the long term.

Just my 2p (for what's it worth).

I couldn't agree more WYL - where are you from originally btw? Your English is excellent

I read on here somewhere (and now of course can't find the post ) a post from someone saying that Middle England doesn't have the 'problem' of foreign workers....

Well, the thing is, i live in Middle England and I don't see foreign workers as a problem. I live in an area where there are probably as many foreign people as British people everyone tends to live and let live. Incidentally, there are a lot of people who came her as prisoners of war in WWII and stayed - would some of you like them deported as well? They didn't ask to come here but are now amongst the richest landowners in the area. The reason being that they bought land that no one else wanted to farm as it was considered 'too hard' they slogged their guts out to earn a living after the war and are now reaping the benefits - and why shouldn't they?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

so many things happening now with jobs leaving the uk lets say to manufacturers and employers IF YOU LEAVE HERE YOU CANT SELL HERE

So what, I wonder, would happen to the economy if the 20% of GDP that exports are responsible for was taken away......

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, if immigration is a good thing.....I take it you are happy for foreign migrants to continue entering this country..and bleeding the welfare state dry?...

They don't do that - immigrants actually have a higher net contribution to the economy than non-immigrants.

But thank you for the statement - at least now nobody can be in any doubt about your racist prejudices.

And one question you manage to dodge every time...when will enough foreigner be enough...when would you like to close the doors?

And for exactly the same reason that I will not debate that with SRJ-90, I won't debate it with you.

If you like other cultures so much have you ever considered moving abroad? and leaving with them permanatly?....you dont seem tobe one iota proud of being British.

I am proud of it, except when I encounter specimens like you.

 

[joe-90]

I ask you (yet) again.

"When do YOU consider this tiny island full?"

Answer please,

I'm not prepared to debate that with someone like you, as you aren't genuinely interested in a reasoned debate. You're not approaching the subject from the position of someone prepared to discuss it rationally, you're doing it from the point of view of a committed racist who sees it as an emotive topic to go into his kitbag to be used in his campaign to turn others into racists. "They'll take our jobs, they'll take our houses, they'll fill up our country, they'll spread disease, they'll rape our women, they'll...., they'll...., they'll...", and so on with predictable prejudiced monotony...

Moderator. I asked BAS why he kept calling me a racist (a libellous statement) and you've deleted it. I would like to know why his post hasn't been deleted and mine has? Well?


joe

Moderator Note

Your post was deleted because the way it was worded was offensive and deliberately so in order to provoke an argumentative reply. You seem incapable of taking part in a discussion in a way that doesn't insult or wind people up, despite several warnings over the past weeks. You seem intent on spoiling subjects which are being debated by posting in the manner you do. It will not be tolerated, so i suggest you take on board the comments and change the way you post. The alternative is that posts which in our view are provocative or fall outside of the rules will simply be deleted. I hope that explains the stance we are taking and it wont be explained any further or again

 

[Softus]

It is not possible to libel a person whose identity is not known.

 

[joe-90]

Moderator, your post is deleted again, e-mail your problems to [email protected]

 

[joe-90]

Moderator, your post is deleted again, e-mail your problems to [email protected]

I'll report further libellous posts with the 'alert moderator' button.


joe

______________________
Moderator,

Thank you.

 

[Softus]

Softus ,I wouldn't say that people are being dismissed because someone can do the job cheaper

OK, but I believe that Zampa was implying it, otherwise why would anyone in employment need to worry about being undercut?

...but what is happening in the building industry is that easten europeans are doing the job for less money making it less attractive to the likes of me. By doing this they are creating employment for themselves, not what you are saying that there must be excess work otherwise they wouldn't be here

That much is true - when a self-employed person undercuts another then they create opporunities to do more jobs at the cheaper rate. That's life I'm afraid, and if it affects the "quality" segment of the market, where I work (by recommendation only), then so be it. I'm quite used to changing my business, and the way that I work, in order to be profitable. I'm not responsible for the failure of anyone else to do the same. Selfish? Maybe. But then I didn't whinge when I was made redundant, I just set about creating businesses in markets where there were demands for honest service provision.

How many of the uneployed do you think are claiming frauduantly thousands hundreds of thousands?

I don't know how many people are claiming fraudulently, and have never claimed to know. I wasn't arguing that they are a drain on resources - that's (a) a different discussion, and (b) wrong if you believe it when we're told that the amount of unclaimed money far exceeds the money claimed fraudulently.

My point was that the figure of 1.5 million is not the true number of people who are willing to work but whose opportunity to work is being eroded by immigrant workers.

On a related point, I know plenty of software contractors who've worked in Australia, Belgium, France, Holland, and Germany, from years back, but I don't see the anti-immigant contingent conceding the hyprocrisy in their arguments.

BTW, does anyone else feel like it's Christmas Eve tonight

 

[Thermo]

BTW, does anyone else feel like it's Christmas Eve tonight

eh??

 

[paulbrown]

It has been said that immigrants mainly do low paid or dirty work that we don't want.

It has also been suggested we welcome this as it gives us cheaper goods and services.

In my area most foreigners seem to work in, the building trade/drive taxis or buses/cleaning/hotels/supermarkets/burger bars/take aways/the post office or petrol stations.

When was the last time anyone on here saw a reduction in prices, as a consequence of this labour, at any of the above?

Get real people, if there are cost savings in employing foreign labour these savings are pocketed by the employers.

They are not being passed on and the suggestion we somehow save money is a fallacy.
---------------------------------------------

The health service is also a big user of foreign labour(mainly cleaners)and its been said they couldn't manage without these people.

Take out the plus 50% on the bill privateer's and middlemen and use the costs saved to pay better wages. This may then make it more worthwhile for our own people to do this work and save importing foreign labour.

The working man and woman needs to see whats truly going on here. The Gov in cahoots with the EU is deliberately creating this situation as a way of driving costs down. It may only be hitting certain sectors at the moment, hence the selfish types aren't all that bothered, but you lot will get your turn so don't cry foul when it happens.

This post as been BASerised for spelling mistakes.