Forum Attitude to Non-Notification

[scousespark]

I think this 'I beleve I am a brilliant DIYER, so should really just be treated as if I am a professional' argument has any relevance here. The post refers to notification nad this has 2 options - a pro can register and self-certify a diyer (or non-registered pro) can notify the LABC directly. The decision to ignore the LABC is personal.

If you're refering to the initial topic of this thread (which I started), then I agree totally - and the main reason I started the thread was because I totally agree with you that a decision to "ignore LABC" (well, to ignore the legal requirement for notification, when such exists) is 'personal' - and none of the business of, and of no importance to, those who answer questions here (unless, of course, the question is about notification!). All that should matter to such people is their perception of the questioner's knowledge and competence, not their attitude to the law.

In the post to which you are responding, I was responding to comments about the way in which some people in some of these forums assume that all DIYers are necessarily lacking in knowledge, skills or competence (or worse). As I said, I can fully understand that it is very difficult to assess the level of competence of a 'newcomer' - but, as is so often said, one should never "assume" (in eitehr direction).

Kind Regards, John.

The assumption should be the person has low level knowledge and pitch low. Subsequent discussion will show if this is a wrong assumption. As a practicing electrician notification is not optional and neither is it for a DIYER (although we know there are people who believe otherwise or choose to ignore it).

In an early post you claimed that most forum members want to restrict electrical installation work. I haven't found that attitude in here. Who are you referring to? If the authorities did go down this route, you did exclude yourself along with BAS and a couple of unnamed others from this restriction. How would that work?

 

[JohnW2]

The assumption should be the person has low level knowledge and pitch low. Subsequent discussion will show if this is a wrong assumption.

Indeed - and I have been saying much the same in the recent messages, also indicating that it's a difficult assessment to make via this medium and that, in the case of myself, I think it was only after a good few months of extensive discussions that people here started to get a feel for my level of knowledge etc. What is less acceptable are the vociferous, condescending and perhaps even plain rude (every forum has one!!), 'condemnations' of a new forum member almost before they have been here for five minutes! In some cases, it's aparent from the outset that a poster 'needs to be discouraged', but that can be done in a civil fashion.

In an early post you claimed that most forum members want to restrict electrical installation work. I haven't found that attitude in here. Who are you referring to?

I suspect that a lot of the people here haven't really worked out what their attitude is, since they don't necessarily 'practice what they preach'. That's why I have been attempting to explore the question in this thread which I started, and also in other recent discussions. Most people who have expressed opinions have said tings along the lines of:

1...DIYers should work to the same standards as professionals, and shouldn't engage in electrical work if they can't.
2...Virtually any electrical work (from replacing damaged sockets/switches upwards) requires 'formal' testing of the circuit concerned
3...It is accepted that only a tiny minority of those who ask questions here will have, or will acquire, the knowledge and equipment to undertake that testing.

There's nothing wrong with any of those statements but, taken together, they effectively mean that the vast majority of DIY electrical work (including that which gives rise to most of the questions in this forum) should not be undertaken by non-electricians. Nevertheless, many of those who appear to hold those views continue to assist/'encourage' the work in question, even if at least one member of this forum feels strongly that so to do is irresponsible, or worse!

If the authorities did go down this route, you did exclude yourself along with BAS and a couple of unnamed others from this restriction. How would that work?

It couldn't possibly work, and I would never seriously suggest that it could. One might envisage some sort of assessment/'qualification' for 'compenent DIYers' - but if one believes in (1) above (which is essentially very reasonable) then nothing short of the same standard as that required of professional electricians would be acceptable - and that obviously would not be practical.

Kind Regards, John

 

[RDB73]

totally understand what you are saying but retailers such as B&Q sell various items to both the trade and joe public. They don't have a legal obligation to ensure the person buying the item is trained to undertake the work. The products simply state must seek proper advice or get correctly trained person to install. The whole ethos of D.I.y came about through people having to undertake work themselves due to financial pressures and without forums such as these then such work I would argue would quite possibly fall foul of sub standard work. i would argue any reasonable person would ask for advice, only once the advise is understood would they then undertake work themselves....but i did say a reasonable person, I understand there are people out there who wont. But in answer to your point, untill retail outlets refuse sale to Joe Public, then these forums are really needed. No offence to anyone intended.

 

[JohnW2]

totally understand what you are saying but retailers such as B&Q sell various items to both the trade and joe public. They don't have a legal obligation to ensure the person buying the item is trained to undertake the work. The products simply state must seek proper advice or get correctly trained person to install. The whole ethos of D.I.y came about through people having to undertake work themselves due to financial pressures and without forums such as these then such work I would argue would quite possibly fall foul of sub standard work. i would argue any reasonable person would ask for advice, only once the advise is understood would they then undertake work themselves....but i did say a reasonable person, I understand there are people out there who wont. But in answer to your point, untill retail outlets refuse sale to Joe Public, then these forums are really needed. No offence to anyone intended.

I'm not sure what 'side' of the discussion you think I'm on, but, if you look at some of the stuff I've written, you'll see that I agree almost totally with what you say.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The products simply state must seek proper advice or get correctly trained person to install.

There you go, then.

The whole ethos of D.I.y came about through people having to undertake work themselves due to financial pressures and without forums such as these then such work I would argue would quite possibly fall foul of sub standard work.

It still will as DIYers do not have the necessary equipment to ensure the work is safe thereby contravening part P of the Building Regulations which is The Law.

i would argue any reasonable person would ask for advice, only once the advise is understood would they then undertake work themselves....but i did say a reasonable person,

Quite.

I understand there are people out there who wont.

That's up to them.

But in answer to your point, untill retail outlets refuse sale to Joe Public,

That won't happen.

then these forums are really needed.

Or not.

No offence to anyone intended.

None taken.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

i would argue any reasonable person would ask for advice, only once the advise is understood would they then undertake work themselves....but i did say a reasonable person, I understand there are people out there who wont.

And what side of the fence do sit on?
Do you research your projects prior to attempting them, and go about them using logical thought, armed with professionally advice?
or do you adopt the bull in a china shop method?

 

[JohnW2]

And what side of the fence do sit on? ... Do you research your projects prior to attempting them, and go about them using logical thought, armed with professionally advice?
or do you adopt the bull in a china shop method?

I think that's slightly rotten The implication of what (s)he wrote is surely that they believe in the former of those two approaches?

Edit: P.S. Just seen the other threads - there does, indeed, seem to be an issue of 'practising' and 'preaching' afoot here - so I can now understand your comment/question!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The implication of what (s)he wrote is surely that they believe in the former of those two approaches?

Believing does not necessarily mean, that you actually approach things with those believes!

 

[JohnW2]

The implication of what (s)he wrote is surely that they believe in the former of those two approaches?

Believing does not necessarily mean, that you actually approach things with those believes!

Indeed. As I said in my PS, there is a definite 'practising and preaching' issue here!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Indeed. As I said in my PS, there is a definite 'practising and preaching' issue here!

Indeed there is!