Free alcohol but only for the Welsh

[charliegolf]

OK, let's get back to facts then.

What advantage does learning maths in Welsh bring to anyone?

Ivor, the question you ask should be, "What advantage does learning maths bring to anyone?"

People who seek Welsh medium schooling for their child usually start at 3 in state provided nursery classes (2 in play groups before that), so the language is well past the 'confusion between the two' stage. The school is totally immersive. By the time a teacher is bisecting angles or doing algebra, the language he/she uses to do it is a nothingburger.

As an aside... I was the head of an English medium school in Wales, which had 24 nationalities and 28 languages or dialects. Those kids were supported in their language, but their education was totally immersed in English. I can prove that if we had them before 7 years old, they suffered no deficit at all.

So it is with Welsh medium schools.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Llanfair P G.

I used to pass it regularly, when I did a contract on Anglesey.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Many contributions to this thread confirm the stereotype that the main purpose of Welsh is to privately bitch about the English.

I spent a lot of time working in various parts of mid/north Wales. You'd walk into a pub where they were chatting away in English, until they heard your English accent and the conversation would suddenly swap to Welsh. Anglesey was the worst.

 

[ericmark]

In Anglesea yes, in but mid Wales walked into a pub and got gentlemen we have an English speaker manors please from landlord.

In Taffs Well when I greeted shop keeper in Welsh got don't speak Welsh here boyo.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I spent a lot of time working in various parts of mid/north Wales. You'd walk into a pub where they were chatting away in English, until they heard your English accent and the conversation would suddenly swap to Welsh. Anglesey was the worst.

I lived in the south Wales valleys for a few months in the 1990s. I worked in a couple of pubs, rubbed along with the locals, generally got on OK. I don't remember ever hearing a single word of Welsh.

A few years ago I happened to be around that area, called in the pub where I'd worked way back. Happened upon a local when coming opposite ways through a doorway. I said after you in my obviously English accent, the local babbled a load of welsh loudly, while there was nobody else around but me. I've no idea what he said, but the tone didn't sound friendly.

Just a tiny example of how insular and backwards Wales is going.

I really wish they'd get independence, a bit of economic reality would be a very good thing.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Ivor, the question you ask should be, "What advantage does learning maths bring to anyone?"

People who seek Welsh medium schooling for their child usually start at 3 in state provided nursery classes (2 in play groups before that), so the language is well past the 'confusion between the two' stage. The school is totally immersive. By the time a teacher is bisecting angles or doing algebra, the language he/she uses to do it is a nothingburger.

As an aside... I was the head of an English medium school in Wales, which had 24 nationalities and 28 languages or dialects. Those kids were supported in their language, but their education was totally immersed in English. I can prove that if we had them before 7 years old, they suffered no deficit at all.

So it is with Welsh medium schools.

Are you questioning the need for maths?

So "no deficit" is the best outcome you can hope for, but only if you get them early enough. Well done everyone, some are not suffering.

Maths needs lots of explanation to teach. Some concepts are frankly mind-bending when first encountered. Obivously there's a bit of greek involved whatever the language. But if someone's explaining what an opposite or adjacent are then you need to put your mental effort into understanding the subject itself, not what the words mean before processing it.

 

[Odds]

Are you questioning the need for maths?

So "no deficit" is the best outcome you can hope for, but only if you get them early enough. Well done everyone, some are not suffering.

Maths needs lots of explanation to teach. Some concepts are frankly mind-bending when first encountered. Obivously there's a bit of greek involved whatever the language. But if someone's explaining what an opposite or adjacent are then you need to put your mental effort into understanding the subject itself, not what the words mean before processing it.

Language channels thought: i knew a polish lady who could speak several European languages as well as flawless English. Sometimes she'd think in Polish and speak German, for instance.
Teaching any subject in the native language of your culture teaches you to think in that way, too. An important method in keeping both relevant in the modern era.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Teaching any subject in the native language of your culture teaches you to think in that way, too. An important method in keeping both relevant in the modern era.

Only mainstream languages have any real value in today's world. I was taught a smattering of German at school, which I quickly lost most of, I learned enough every day Italian, to get by, whilst working there for a year. I ended up thinking in Italian, prior to speaking to anyone in Italian, rather than translating from English to Italian, whereas during a brief period in Germany, I would have to translate..

 

[Brigadier]

Lad who used to work for me swore he was a proud Welshman, even though he was from Bishop's Castle.

I challenged him to speak some welsh, if he really was.

Araf, he started with.

Then, ysgol.

I laughed, and said he had a basic knowledge of road signs.

He was a bit less vociferous about his "welshness" after that.

 

[nwgs]

Lad who used to work for me swore he was a proud Welshman, even though he was from Bishop's Castle.

I challenged him to speak some welsh, if he really was.

Araf, he started with.

Then, ysgol.

I laughed, and said he had a basic knowledge of road signs.

He was a bit less vociferous about his "welshness" after that.

Serious question, how many welsh people can speak welsh now ?

My wife is Cornish and can’t speak Cornish.

 

[Brigadier]

Serious question, how many welsh people can speak welsh now ?

My wife is Cornish and can’t speak Cornish.

Not a clue, but a claim to be welsh when you weren't born in Wales, didn't live in Wales, and couldn't speak welsh would be a weak one, IMHO.

 

[nwgs]

Not a clue, but a claim to be welsh when you weren't born in Wales, didn't live in Wales, and couldn't speak welsh would be a weak one, IMHO.

I missed the bit about him not being born in wales.

Fair enough.

 

[charliegolf]

Oops

 

[charliegolf]

Serious question, how many welsh people can speak welsh now ?

My wife is Cornish and can’t speak Cornish.

About 18% at the last (maybe last but one) census.

 

[nwgs]

About 40% at the last (maybe last but one) census.

• In 2021, an estimated 538,000 usual residents in Wales aged three years and over (17.8%) reported being able to speak Welsh, which is a decrease since 2011 (562,000, 19.0%).

Which is still more than I thought.