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Front Drive - Solution? !! UPDATE !! (14th Apr)
- Thread starter dybleah
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EddieM
Indeed even a concrete base will be no match for tree roots.
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I've asked for 2 somewhat experienced guys to take a look at my drive.
FIRST BUILDER:
He says that the present surface+concrete will have to all come up. Then the layers will be as follows:
1) thin sand base 2) 100mm cement mixed with hardcore 3) ~60mm sand layer 4) blocks
Now the question is whether the cement+hardcore can be the sub-base equivalent??
Keeping in mind I have large tree roots that might push up in 3-4 years. (He did mention something about sulphur being mixed into it to inhibit the roots).
I think his logic was that, since we have lots of cars rolling on top, there isn't enough support with just normal sub-base...so that's the reason for the cement+hardcore base.
SECOND BUILDER:
came afterwards and said his method was to rip it all up and place concrete with wire-mesh underneath (to prevent roots...)
So no-one so far is doing it the "simple sub-base" way...
Opinions guys??
FIRST BUILDER:
He says that the present surface+concrete will have to all come up. Then the layers will be as follows:
1) thin sand base 2) 100mm cement mixed with hardcore 3) ~60mm sand layer 4) blocks
Now the question is whether the cement+hardcore can be the sub-base equivalent??
Keeping in mind I have large tree roots that might push up in 3-4 years. (He did mention something about sulphur being mixed into it to inhibit the roots).
I think his logic was that, since we have lots of cars rolling on top, there isn't enough support with just normal sub-base...so that's the reason for the cement+hardcore base.
SECOND BUILDER:
came afterwards and said his method was to rip it all up and place concrete with wire-mesh underneath (to prevent roots...)
So no-one so far is doing it the "simple sub-base" way...
Opinions guys??
if its the tree roots causing it, then they will continue to cause some form of damage, all the time it is there, you need to minimise it.
ANy concrete option will form a non-flexible surface which will crack and move when subjected to the movement from the roots, as it already has done. You would be much better going for a flexible form of paving, that will allow some movement, wont cause so much damage when it does move, and will be easier to repair in isolated areas.
I would go for a traditional block paving option on a decent mot sub-base.
It might be an idea to limit areas of paving around the trees and introduce beds there, to avoid any damage. As siad before you wont know the full extent until its dug out, but you may be able to trim back some of the worst roots without causing damage to the tree (council arborist should be able to advise if need be)
WIth regards the two options suggested, what do you think will be achieved by mxing cement with hardcore? it wont bind together and will do sod all. what is the point of the 60mm of sand under that?
What do you think will happen with a large slab overtime, if the tree roots get to it? mesh is not going to stop the tree roots (im not being sarcastic just think through what theyve suggested logically!)
ANy concrete option will form a non-flexible surface which will crack and move when subjected to the movement from the roots, as it already has done. You would be much better going for a flexible form of paving, that will allow some movement, wont cause so much damage when it does move, and will be easier to repair in isolated areas.
I would go for a traditional block paving option on a decent mot sub-base.
It might be an idea to limit areas of paving around the trees and introduce beds there, to avoid any damage. As siad before you wont know the full extent until its dug out, but you may be able to trim back some of the worst roots without causing damage to the tree (council arborist should be able to advise if need be)
WIth regards the two options suggested, what do you think will be achieved by mxing cement with hardcore? it wont bind together and will do sod all. what is the point of the 60mm of sand under that?
What do you think will happen with a large slab overtime, if the tree roots get to it? mesh is not going to stop the tree roots (im not being sarcastic just think through what theyve suggested logically!)
With trees of that trunk size next to a wall which by the looks of it has been displaced verticaly, I would remove them and be done with it and then re-do drive with some nice shrubbery in place of the trees
Hmmm I thought about it in the same way too. Pavingexpert.com was very convincing when they spoke of the importance of sub-bases.
Incidentally, the builders said that 100mm compacted DTp sub-base would not be able to withstand 4X4's coming in and out of our drive (a few times everyday...its like a little motorway our drive!). They said it would succumb to the pressure after a while and start to dip... Although i dont have expertise in this area, this sounds a bit inaccurate since compacted sub-base is MEANT to support cars on top if properly laid down.
Right??
Incidentally, the builders said that 100mm compacted DTp sub-base would not be able to withstand 4X4's coming in and out of our drive (a few times everyday...its like a little motorway our drive!). They said it would succumb to the pressure after a while and start to dip... Although i dont have expertise in this area, this sounds a bit inaccurate since compacted sub-base is MEANT to support cars on top if properly laid down.
Right??
If only the world were so black and white as you desire.
All block paving, even that laid over a foundation of concrete will dip over time where cars drive in over the same tracks since it is laid on sand and you have heard of those shifting sands have you not?
Block paving over MOT will dip more so over time when on clay as you have.
Bring back crazy paving, concrete or red tarmac I say
well, if we use 150mm of DTp then it should be ok... I'm not sure if it's clay underneath, but cars have been on it for over a decade now, so its pretty impacted down.
I mean, if the DTp isnt good enough and the cement/concrete wont hold a root, then how are we to deal with the drive?!
Also, we have a large tree root that's bulging up just under the surface. What's the best way to chop it away and make it not grow upwards again??
I mean, if the DTp isnt good enough and the cement/concrete wont hold a root, then how are we to deal with the drive?!
Also, we have a large tree root that's bulging up just under the surface. What's the best way to chop it away and make it not grow upwards again??
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EddieM
A tree root will go where it wants to regardless of any base you put down. To be sure, you would have to remove the roots, possibly the trees themselves.
Ahhh...
OK, i think the most obvious first thing to do is to cut off that offending root since its the most superficial one and somehow treat it a bit to stop it growing.
Essentially, the roots mean nothing to this project then - since we all think that nothing will stop roots in their path of upheaval.
Therefore, for the guy who suggested concrete+wiremesh, do you think this would work?? Or should I still go for the more "flexible" 150mm of DTp?? Please give some reasons, so I can work with an informed mind!
Thanks again guys for all the tips
OK, i think the most obvious first thing to do is to cut off that offending root since its the most superficial one and somehow treat it a bit to stop it growing.
Essentially, the roots mean nothing to this project then - since we all think that nothing will stop roots in their path of upheaval.
Therefore, for the guy who suggested concrete+wiremesh, do you think this would work?? Or should I still go for the more "flexible" 150mm of DTp?? Please give some reasons, so I can work with an informed mind!
Thanks again guys for all the tips
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