Full rewire and CU change non registered electrician

Ah ok, I wasn't sure whether his comment was directed at the OP or you.

I think if example 'full plans' were included it would make people alot more inclined to go down that route. When I was looking at the options it all seemed rather vague and lacking in details with regards to what the BCO was expecting to see.

As for awkward building inspectors - I got the worst (as confirmed by other builders who have met most of them)!
 
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The building notice route at least eliminates the need to draw up plans which you might otherwise not need to waste time with for minor jobs.
And creates the risk that you'll encounter the awkward Building Inspector after you've spent aload of time and money arriving at a situation he isn't happy with.

Full Plans: "I will do A, B & C". "No, don't like that. Please do X, Y & Z".

Building Notice: "I have done A, B & C". "No, don't like that. Please rip it all out and throw it all away, and do it all again, only this time do X, Y & Z".


OK - situation exaggerated, to make the point, which is that you gain absolutely nothing by going the Building Notice route, and in return for absolutely nothing you take on unnecessary risks.
 
And if what you have done or are proposing to do is what you want and is perfectly satisfactory (i.e. it meets the broad requirement of having made reasonable provision for safety), then your response should be similar in either case:

Full Plans: "I will do A, B & C". "No, don't like that. Please do X, Y & Z".
"Please explain in what way my proposal to do A, B & C would not satisfy the requirements of the building regulations."

Building Notice: "I have done A, B & C". "No, don't like that. Please rip it all out and throw it all away, and do it all again, only this time do X, Y & Z".
"Please explain in what way the work I have done consisting of A, B & C does not satisfy the requirements of the building regulations."
 
Ah.

And if what you have done or are proposing to do is what you want and is perfectly satisfactory (i.e. it meets the broad requirement of having made reasonable provision for safety),
And what if it's not?

Still - you carry on pretending that it isn't better to find out before it's too late that what you plan to do will cause you problems.

And I'll carry on pointing out that it can't possibly not be.

I just pity anyone who listens to your utter foolishness.
 
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There can be a big difference between what is satisfactory in terms of the broad requirement of Part P and what some local building inspector thinks you should do (or have done).

Some LABC bureaucrat may well tell you that A, B & C is not acceptable and that X, Y & Z is the only method of satisfying the regulations, but that doesn't mean he's right.
 
Indeed.

Still - you carry on pretending that it isn't better to have that argument before it's too late to make any changes that might placate him.

And I'll carry on pointing out that it can't possibly not be.

I just pity anyone who listens to your utter foolishness.
 
that it isn't better to have that argument before it's too late to make any changes that might placate him.
If what you are proposing to do (or have already done) is satisfactory, then you should not have to make any changes just to satisfy some little LABC dictator who thinks he has every right to refuse to accept something just because it isn't done "his way."

But then I suppose it depends upon whether you just want to roll over and let yourself be bullied into doing something which isn't required, and encourage the bully to continue his bullying.
 
Indeed.

Still - you carry on pretending that it isn't better to have any disagreements like that arise, and any opportunities to resolve any conflicts, whatever their cause, before you've drastically reduced your freedom of movement in any negotiations.

And I'll carry on pointing out that it can't possibly not be.


I just pity anyone who listens to your utter foolishness.
 
Thanks everyone for advice and thoughts. I have written to the Planning office asking how i can feel secure i am being given the correct fee information when their own price sheet has very confusing and misleading statements.

The implication on the fee sheet that rewiring is not Part P, the further implication that a rewire falls under minor works, and further, that minor works will be charged a planning fee.

Ignoring the last discrepancy above, If i was trying to "get around" the system or just an ordinary member of the public, i could quite honestly state that reading their price sheet i believed, a rewire is not part p and is minor work and therefore as i know minor work is not notifiable (my friendly spark told me this or the man at B&Q told me this etc etc) I did not bother BCO.

An extreme i know but not impossible especially if i was Joe Public with limited awareness of all this part P stuff and i did have a cowboy quoting to do the work.

Then there is the whole issue of the section headed up on their sheet as Alterations, change of use, installation of fittings or services, structural alterations, other works etc:
This i s the bit that gets me back to the old charging regime.

If they have a good explanation for the way the sheet is written, i still have the question how can they justify an increase in building control charges for a piece of notifiable work of over 400%.

Thank heavens my eventual application will be from a different email to these questions, a vindictive and awkward BCO is all i need. :)
 
Thanks everyone for advice and thoughts. I have written to the Planning office asking how i can feel secure i am being given the correct fee information when their own price sheet has very confusing and misleading statements.
Can you post a link to it?


The implication on the fee sheet that rewiring is not Part P
That can't be a correct inference - Part P applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.


the further implication that a rewire falls under minor works, and further, that minor works will be charged a planning fee.
If you're using that term in a Wiring Regulations context, a rewire is not Minor Works, and there is no correlation between what's Minor Works and what is not notifiable.
 
Thanks Paul for link.

BAS not in disagreement with you, have a look at the link, put yourself in the position of the majority of joe public and their very low level of understanding/awareness of Part P and from that position interpret the fee sheet.
 
Thanks everyone for advice and thoughts. I have written to the Planning office asking how i can feel secure i am being given the correct fee information when their own price sheet has very confusing and misleading statements.
Please also ask them why they think that Part P is the name of a qualification, or competent person scheme, and why they suggest that electrical work can be done which doesn't comply with Part P.

Whoever wrote that document deserves a good kicking.


The implication on the fee sheet that rewiring is not Part P,
No.

Read p2:

East Devon District Council may charge an additional supplementary fee where appropriate in the event of:
.
.
f) Where building work includes the installation of controlled fitting or services and where they are not being fitted by a member of competent person scheme e.g. Part P, HETAS, OFTEC, Gas Safe Register etc.


They think that Part P is a Competent Person scheme - what Table C contains are the fees for notifying electrical work not done by a member of a Competent Person scheme.


the further implication that a rewire falls under minor works,
No - there are two rows in the table for electrical work:

Re-wiring or new installation in a dwelling
Other minor works


Rewiring is separate from minor works.


and further, that minor works will be charged a planning fee.
The word "planning" does not appear anywhere in that document.


Ignoring the last discrepancy above, If i was trying to "get around" the system or just an ordinary member of the public, i could quite honestly state that reading their price sheet i believed, a rewire is not part p
Well - the problem with that is that whatever grossly inaccurate terms used by the idiot who wrote it, that document does clearly state that there is a fee to notify a rewire.


and is minor work and therefore as i know minor work is not notifiable
Some minor work is notifiable. Adding a socket in a kitchen, for example.

So you would be wrong to say "as I know....".


(my friendly spark told me this or the man at B&Q told me this etc etc) I did not bother BCO.
That would never work - you don't gain exemption from legislation by asking people who don't know what they are talking about.


An extreme i know but not impossible especially if i was Joe Public with limited awareness of all this part P stuff and i did have a cowboy quoting to do the work.
People will always be at risk from cowboys, particularly if they don't know what's required.


Then there is the whole issue of the section headed up on their sheet as Alterations, change of use, installation of fittings or services, structural alterations, other works etc:
This i s the bit that gets me back to the old charging regime.
Sorry - I really don't see why that's an issue.

I can't grasp the concept of anybody being so daft as to think that that part applies to electrical work when there's a specific entry for electrical work a few rows below.

And re the "old charging regime":
In the past when i have done notifiable work, admittedly on a smaller scale, lights in bathrooms extra sockets in kitchens etc the fee has been around £90 with the VAT.
The fee for that is now £51.06 + £38.29 = £89.35 including VAT.

I don't see what the problem is.


If they have a good explanation for the way the sheet is written, i still have the question how can they justify an increase in building control charges for a piece of notifiable work of over 400%.
1) You don't know what the charge used to be, as you have not previously notified a rewire.

2) The fee for a rewire is now £51.06 + £114.89 = £165.95, so it's hard to see how that can be a 400% increase over what they used to charge.
 
The first two columns are the plan fee and inspection fee, excluding VAT which needs to be added:

(51.06 + 114.89) x 1.2 = £199.14

The third column is the building notice fee, which is shown with VAT included and is the same as the sum of the plan & inspection fees (allowing for the penny difference due to rounding in the calculation)
The fee for that is now £51.06 + £38.29 = £89.35 including VAT.

{.....}

The fee for a rewire is now £51.06 + £114.89 = £165.95
Looking again at the fee document after reading your figures, I think I may have to retract my earlier comment about adding VAT to the plan & inspection fees, because right up at the top of page 1 it does say that all the fees listed are inclusive of VAT (except for "regularisation" charges).

But that would mean that the building notice charge is then 20% higher than the charge for a plan submission & inspection. I thought that the charges always worked out the same?

:confused:
 

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