G3 certification and unvented cylinder installation

[Wolfdance]

After a bit of advice about something I know very little about… We are having an unvented cylinder installed at the same time as having our bathroom redone, and all work is being done (or at least arranged) by the same chap (who has previously done good work on a friends bathroom installation).

As I understand it, anyone installing an unvented cylinder must hold a G3 certification. He appears not to, but has said that he has been installing them for over 10 years and then uses somebody else to certificate. Does this sound like standard practice? I’m obviously keen not to have someone sticking it in on a best endeavours case and invalidating warranty/home insurance etc.

Any advice very gratefully received.

 

[Madrab]

Just to be a little pedantic, the qual is slightly different now, Part G is an English building regs requirement, as such it does not apply any where else albeit the other home nations regs are as similar as makes no difference. The qual for unvented is now though is - HWSS - Hot Water Systems and Safety and that includes the Unvented Hot Water component.

Should someone else sign off someone else's work that is regulated, categorially no, as the install, servicing and registering of an unvented cylinder should be performed by a qualified engineer. To do any work on a regulated component when you aren't qualified to do it, especially if you are paid for it, is basically illegal. If something untoward were to happen and it was found out that he wasn't qualified would invalidate so many things and he and his 'pal' could be in an awful lot of trouble.

I would steer well clear, I'd also be asking him if he is a qualified plumber and does he hold liability insurance and can you see it, as that can invalidate buildings insurance too

 

[Wolfdance]

Thanks Madrab for your very detailed explanation (and I’m in England), I’m really grateful and it’s convinced me that I’m not just being paranoid. I’m going to talk to him about it next week, and I’ll be framing the whole conversation around what you’ve written. Incidentally, it also all makes perfect sense that you would need the qualifications to install it (rather than having it signed off), but I’m pretty inexperienced with home renovations.

 

[thomp1983]

It's not an unusual situation and goes on quite alot with both plumbing and electrics, it's a similar situation with signing off apprentices or labourers work the only difference is that's normally supervised a bit more.

 

[Madrab]

It's not an unusual situation

Have to agree that I'm sure it does go on a fair bit. Though I thing the guys signing them off are mad, if there are any issue then it comes back to them, If it was me I wouldn't risk my business nor my trade on someone that isn't trained to do the job.

As far as the unvented qualification is concerned though, I don't believe that allows the qualified engineer to train/supervise anyone that isn't already qualified to work on unvented, even supervised, nor sign their work off.

Haven't ever checked that though

 

[gas112]

Lets be honest unvented qualification is a joke its about half hour exam at most for a resit and anyone doing it from scratch its less than a day . Its not exactly rocket science

 

[Madrab]

Totally agree with that, it definitely isn't rocket science. Unfortunately it still doesn't take away from the fact that it's still regulated and needs a qualified bod to do the job. Though it wouldn't be the first time I've been to an unvented where the benchmark wasn't completed, the job wasn't notified and the install wasn't quite right.

I guess the flip side is, as it is that easy then why don't these guys just spend the money and get qualified like the rest of us.

 

[gas112]

I guess the flip side is, as it is that easy then why don't these guys just spend the money and get qualified like the rest of us.

could be because the guys who originally done it were told it was a life time qualification and didnt mind paying for it .
Then they moved the goal posts and made it a 5 year one and they think fek that why should i pay another 200 quid .

 

[Madrab]

Cause that's the rules and if they get caught then it could cost them a lot more than £200.

That and It's just being stubborn and arrogant, could put the client in an impossible position when their warranty/insurance claim is invalidated and gives our trade a bad name.

 

[gas112]

Cause that's the rules and if they get caught then it could cost them a lot more than £200.

That and It's just being stubborn and arrogant, could put the client in an impossible position when their warranty/insurance claim is invalidated and gives our trade a bad name.

yep i constantly see the g3 police patrolling who do you think installs all these cylinders on new builds its the site plumbers same as the gas carcasses that are all then signed off by the guy with the qualification

 

[Madrab]

Doesn't make it right. Maybe why new builds are such a mess and gives the whole thing a bad name with $hit installs and should change.

I agreed with you initially but just because I don't see things the same way as you do ... then it's any reason for an argument.

Have a happy Sunday!

 

[denso13]

As I understand it, anyone installing an unvented cylinder must hold a G3 certification.

Strictly speaking, no, if not qualified to self certify then it should be notified to LABC building control just as any other notifiable works. They will advise on what is required for signing the works off.

This probably wasn't done either though.