Garage Wiring

[Carl1973]

Hi All,

I am looking at building a new garage, compete with electrics etc. I am fully conversant with the 2.5mm Flat twin & earth for a ring main and 1.5mm Flat twin & Earth for lighting.

Question..

Can you use 2.5mm & 1.5mm 3 core flex for the same wiring (IE: is it in line with wiring regs)

Regards

Carl

 

[Spark123]

Apart from it being more difficult to terminate it isn't easy to get it to look good.
Better using twin and earth or singles in trunking or conduit.
This work, it is shares a common supply with a dwelling, will be notifiable to your LABC under part p of the building regs.

 

[Carl1973]

Singles it is then, just figure it will be easier to run through 20mm conduit, I intend to do the first fix myself running all the cables and then get a sparky in to connect the SWA to the fuse box in the house and the garage consumer unit etc so its all certified but saving a bit of labour costs.

Spark123 thanks for the advice.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Be aware that running cables in conduit will mean a derating factor being applied!

 

[Taylortwocities]

Singles it is then, just figure it will be easier to run through 20mm conduit, I intend to do the first fix myself running all the cables and then get a sparky in to connect the SWA to the fuse box in the house and the garage consumer unit etc so its all certified but saving a bit of labour costs.

Spark123 thanks for the advice.

Please be aware that registered electricians are only able to notify works that they have done themselves (aka "self notification").
Also the installation certificate states that the electrician himself has
designed, constructed, inspected, tested and verified in accordance with BS 7671:2008 the installation.

He cannot sign off your work as his own without leaving himself liable as he will have LIED in his submissions.

There is a half-way house (or garage in your case). Engage with a chosen electrician and have him agree what he will let you do under his direction. He can then have the opportunity of chacking stuff as you go along and can then sign it off.

As a footnote:
This garage you are putting up. Did you need Building regs/planning for this?
If so there will have been a bit in your submission regarding how you would comply with Building Regulations Part P. What did you say, in response to this question?

 

[Carl1973]

As a footnote:
This garage you are putting up. Did you need Building regs/planning for this?
If so there will have been a bit in your submission regarding how you would comply with Building Regulations Part P. What did you say, in response to this question?

I am about to submit a pre-lanning applcation to see if I need planning permission (£72) and then will take the advice given (if required) on any building regs etc.. prior to going the whole hog on the £150 planning application.

Thanks for the other advice, will have to find myself a good sparky prior to the build.

 

[Adam_151]

Where in Lincolnshire are you?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am about to submit a pre-lanning applcation to see if I need planning permission (£72) and then will take the advice given (if required) on any building regs etc.. prior to going the whole hog on the £150 planning application.

Planning permission and Building Regulations approval are two entirely separate things.

In general you could need the former and not the latter, or the latter and not the former, neither or both.

Whether you'll need PP I don't know, but Building Regulations will apply.

 

[hammerswinger]

Please be aware that registered electricians are only able to notify works that they have done themselves (aka "self notification").
Also the installation certificate states that the electrician himself has
designed, constructed, inspected, tested and verified in accordance with BS 7671:2008 the installation.

He cannot sign off your work as his own without leaving himself liable as he will have LIED in his submissions.

Some of that may be changing soon:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/2063566.pdf

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It may, but is there any sign of new legislation yet?

I wonder what the new regulations will say about 3rd party testing? Will it require people to use a Competent Person, and will their organisations require their members to carry out a particular inspection regime? Will they require them to fork out more money for a new class of membership?

Will the PLI/PII insurers demand higher premiums if there will be any liability on electricians who certify DIY work?

I can't see much interest in it, if these things happen, as I don't think there will be much of a market for it - the problem with the confident predictions in the Impact Assessment of competition driving down the cost of 3rd party certification is that it's predicated on people going down that route instead of notifying LABC.

Whereas in reality people will still simply ignore the new regulations just like they ignore the current ones.

 

[Carl1973]

Where in Lincolnshire are you?

In Lincoln just off the A46 Bypass

 

[hammerswinger]

I haven't read up that much on it I only spotted that yesterday, I think if there is any new legislation it will be next year.


Cheers.

 

[Carl1973]

I am about to submit a pre-lanning applcation to see if I need planning permission (£72) and then will take the advice given (if required) on any building regs etc.. prior to going the whole hog on the £150 planning application.

Planning permission and Building Regulations approval are two entirely separate things.

In general you could need the former and not the latter, or the latter and not the former, neither or both.

Whether you'll need PP I don't know, but Building Regulations will apply.

I concur, I have had a brief look and being a single skin single storey detatched garage it probably won't need planning permission or building regs, but the limit is set at 30 Sqaure metres for building regs not being required and it will run over slightly hence going through the pre-planning route so I can get all my ducks in a row.

Being keen DIY'r I am keen to get everything togeather first go to ensure it runs smoothly, hence the advice I am getting on this forum is proving invaluable.

 

[securespark]

I haven't read up that much on it I only spotted that yesterday, I think if there is any new legislation it will be next year.

63. Secondly, we propose to allow for third-party certification of work that has been carried out by someone who is not a member of a Competent Person Scheme.

We will test the detail of how this works at consultation. We believe that there are two possible ways that could be made available under these proposals – providing the flexibility for individuals to decide which route is the more suitable/cost-effective for them.

64. The first approach would be to permit suitably trained and qualified members of Competent Person Schemes to certify the work of others who are not registered electricians, thereby by-passing the building control body entirely.

Initial engagement with external partners suggests that scheme operators believe that, in addition to a final inspection, this option should include supervision and inspection while the job is being undertaken. On that basis, we estimate that the cost for this type of third-party certification would be approximately £150.

65. An alternative approach would be to permit any qualified electrician to inspect work by unregistered installers, and to issue a “condition report” following only a final inspection of the completed work (that is by-passing an intermediate inspection of work-in-progress), but which would be subject to final formal sign-off by the building control body.

This approach would only deliver potential savings if the fees charged by the building control body properly reflected the reduced cost to them of the notification (by generally accepting the condition report as demonstrating compliance with the regulations).

DCLG envisages, therefore, that it would need to be underpinned by changes to the local authority building control charges regulations that came fully into effect in October 2010, and working with LABC (Local Authority Building Control) on a model charging scheme to encourage local authority building control bodies to charge fees that properly reflect the work involved with their consideration.

We estimate that overall charges are likely to be similar to those set out above – £80 for production of a “condition report” by a qualified electrician and a reduced building control fee of £70 (including the £10 cost in time of notification by the installer).

66. This means that for DIYers the average saving per job through introducing third party certification is £91 (the average building control fee and notification of £241 minus the cost of third-party certification of £150). 4% of the 950,000 jobs carried out by DIYers are notifiable, so the potential saving is £3.46m per year or £29.78m over 10 years. This is a saving to DIYers rather than business.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, but this is all (possibly, maybe) in the future. The work he is planning/doing will be under todays legislation.

The government may (possibly) increase the maximum motorway speed to 80mph but the speed limit is 70mph up until the time that the law is passed saying that you can do 80.