Garden lighting a mess!?

[tan8856]

Hi

Im not an electrician so apologies for not knowing the names of componants

We've moved into this house and are trying to suss out the garden lighting.

We have 3 x lantern/lamps on the decking balustrade. Each one runs off its own cable and under the decking and has its own black transformer/plug.
We have 3 rows of led lights in our decking, each row has its own cable and fits into one of those black hexagonal power terminals which in turn has a black transformer/plug.
We have 2 weatherproof wall sockets.

It appears that none of these plugs are weatherproof so what the previous owner has done is plug them all into a 4 way extension cable and house that cable in a freestanding weatherproof box. This allows all the lighting to be plugged into 1 of the wall sockets.

The weatherproof box obviously isnt waterproof as it was full of water! All the plugs are wet and rusty and slimey.

Im trying to work out a solution for getting the garden lighting running safely. What i dont understand is why the lighting plugs arnt weatherproof, surely with outdoor lighting all the fixtures and fittings should be weatherproof?

Is it sensible to plug an indoor plug into an outdoor socket and just leave it there all the time to run the lighting off? Surely the wind and rain will get up and under the plug and its dangerous?

Can anyone advise on how I can make my lighting function safely?

Thanks in advance.

 

[tan8856]

ps Is there a way i can safely check if the lighting actually works? The light plugs are wet so if i got them dried out (how?) could i plug them into my clean dry extension cable or will I electricute myself?

 

[flameport]

All the plugs are wet and rusty and slimey.

Don't even bother trying to do anything with those. They should be scrapped. Plugging them in will be dangerous, even if they are dried out.

What i dont understand is why the lighting plugs arnt weatherproof, surely with outdoor lighting all the fixtures and fittings should be weatherproof?

The fittings may well be suitable for use outside, but the transformer and plug are typically NOT suitable for outside use. The intention being that the plug/transformers are located indoors and only the 12 volt or whatever cable goes outside.

Is it sensible to plug an indoor plug into an outdoor socket and just leave it there all the time to run the lighting off? Surely the wind and rain will get up and under the plug and its dangerous?.

Exactly. Outdoor sockets are for portable equipment only. They are not for permanent installations. Further, some outdoor sockets are not waterproof when a plug is inserted.

Can anyone advise on how I can make my lighting function safely?

Replace it with a proper, permanent installation.
This is notifiable work.

 

[breezer]

.......This is notifiable work.

To throw the cat amongst the pidgeons.

1) No its not, because he is just replacing like for like.

2) If done right and transformers are indoors and then pluged in, (as this kit is desinged to be used) no one in their right mind will get either BCO or a part P electrician to certyfy it.

Imagine this, "Hello BCO or Mr Part P electricain, I have just replaced some garden lights that come with plug in transformers, i have now plugged them in, indoors, can you please come and issue me a certificate, which will cost me lots of money."

Not going to happen is it.

 

[Spark123]

.......This is notifiable work.

To throw the cat amongst the pidgeons.

1) No its not, because he is just replacing like for like.

Reading the OP I doubt that the original installation would comply with P1 of Part P hence replacing it on a like for like basis still won't comply with P1, therefore replacing it would be illegal in itself.

2) If done right and transformers are indoors and then pluged in, (as this kit is desinged to be used) no one in their right mind will get either BCO or a part P electrician to certyfy it.

Imagine this, "Hello BCO or Mr Part P electricain, I have just replaced some garden lights that come with plug in transformers, i have now plugged them in, indoors, can you please come and issue me a certificate, which will cost me lots of money."

Not going to happen is it.

Maybe not, but this it isn't your shout to make.

 

[maltaron]

Surely if the OP scraps the lot and installs new ones which just plug in indoors then it is not notifiable.

 

[breezer]

Surely if the OP scraps the lot and installs new ones which just plug in indoors then it is not notifiable.

Thats what i would do / say. But some say that as the lights are fixed it comes under part P I know a line has to be drawn somewhere, but when something that is desinged to be plugged in is used I say it does not come under part P.

 

[Spark123]

All work on domestic fixed installations in England and Wales come under the scope of Part P, wether the work is notifiable or not is another matter.
Regardless of wether or not it is notifiable, all work must still comply with P1.
Schedule 2B deals with work which is non-notifiable, if the work only involves work with "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" which are suitable for it's intended use it will be non-notifiable.

 

[tan8856]

are the black hexagonal power points waterproof? what are they called?

 

[breezer]

They are called power supplies, although some are electronic transformers.

I only know of one transfomer that is waterproof, the word you want is weatherproof.

If it were me in your shoes (and it isnt) i would see if i could plug the lights in in doors.

Or, it may be the free standing weather proof box was upside down, (you did not say in your original post) or it may not even be a weather proof box.

a picture or two would say more.

how to post a picture is in forum information

 

[tan8856]

the weatherproof box just had some degraded mastic where the cables came in/out and water must have got in there. it says 'weatherproof' on the box. im guessing there should have been some device where the wires enter and exit to prevent water getting in?

so is the end bit of the cable from the leds in my decking that plugs into the power supply weatherproof? im just trying to work out how i can leave the cables out year round. what do people do that have fairy lights in their garden? surely they dont bring them in every night? our garden in quite big so if i wanted fairy lights on a tree at the end of the garden how would the electrics work for that?

an electrician has suggested hard-wiring (?) the lights into a box on the external wall next to the outdoor sockets, the box would have a switch so i could turn the lights on/off from there. could i do the same with the leds?

ive attached a couple of pics

Untitled

• tan8856
• 29 Mar 2009
• 1

Untitled

• tan8856
• 29 Mar 2009
• 1

 

[breezer]

you could do as suggested with the leds...............

how ever from what you have said so far it sounds like the power supply for the LEDS has corroded. Now we can see the hexagonal thing i would say its just a distribution box, or is it these that have coroded?

I would opt to have a new weatherproof box from TLC (SM WP401) other supplies of weather proof boxes are available.

There are thousands if not millions of these boxes in use with no water inside (I adapt another brand of box and have never had problems) so I would suggest the original one had water because

1) The lid / seals were not in place or tight

2) The box was lower than the cables*


When installing any external enclosure outside the main body should cover the cable or the cable should enter from below, and or have a drip loop.

Its up to you what you want to do though.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I know a line has to be drawn somewhere, but when something that is desinged to be plugged in is used I say it does not come under part P.

Yup - that's what you say.

And every time you say it you are wrong.

Part P (in fact all of the Building Regulations) applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

So if it's fixed, it's fixed - supplying it via a plug makes no difference at all.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It says 'weatherproof' on the box.

Meaningless. That's like saying newspaper is shower-resistant.

Does it have an IP rating anywhere on it?

 

[breezer]

Ban-all-sheds, lets assume what you say as correct. So the poor OP is going to have to say the following

"Hello BCO or Mr Part P registered electricain, I have just replaced some garden lights that come with plug in transformers, i have now plugged them in, indoors, can you please come and issue me a certificate, which will cost me lots of money."

Not going to happen is it. They will think you are taking the P*** which you will be because you are only plugging the lights in.

You have to be practical about it, which you are not being.

I also notice you chose to ignore the following.

All work on domestic fixed installations in England and Wales come under the scope of Part P, wether the work is notifiable or not is another matter.
Regardless of wether or not it is notifiable, all work must still comply with P1.
Schedule 2B deals with work which is non-notifiable, if the work only involves work with "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" which are suitable for it's intended use it will be non-notifiable.

Ban-all-sheds, you may actually be a nice bloke, but there is no need constantly prove otherwise.