D.O.M 
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More Dirty....... OAP
2 out of 3 isn't bad....WoodYouLike said:
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You're all bad (and very pre-occupied with one -tiny- issue it seems)
russians where not allies with the gerriesThermo said:
considering they werent in the war and were allied with the germans then er yes!
good idea give it a try
the ruskie won ww2 never forget that
the yanks only came in to stop russia taking over all of europe cos they surely would have
B
Big_Spark
Our finest moment as a nation was withstanding the bombardment from German bombers by the General population in London, Coventry, Leeds etc etc, especially the south coast ports and the East End that were bombed mercilessly.
The population didn't give up, they had no means to fight back except perceverance and they won the day.
Of course the military achievements should be remembered, and the BoB is a crucial battle in our nations history, but the stoicism of the public in the face of the unseen enemy is something we should celebrate from the rafters, yet is oft forgotten.
The population didn't give up, they had no means to fight back except perceverance and they won the day.
Of course the military achievements should be remembered, and the BoB is a crucial battle in our nations history, but the stoicism of the public in the face of the unseen enemy is something we should celebrate from the rafters, yet is oft forgotten.
B
Big_Spark
russians where not allies with the gerriesSlogger said:good idea give it a try
the ruskie won ww2 never forget that
the yanks only came in to stop russia taking over all of europe cos they surely would have[/quote]
Slogger, In 1937 Stalin and Hitler signed a treaty which made them partners in the development of Military hardware, then following the German annexation of the Czech and Slovak republics, they signed a Non-aggression treaty, and duly patted each on the back. When German Troops entered Poland on Sept 1 1939, 42 Russian Divisions crossed the Polish Border in the East. This move had been agreed and co-ordinated to split the Polish forces, to prevent a co-ordinated defence against the German attack, and the Russians duly stopped at the pre agreed stop line.
This situation remained the same, with the German and Russian Military exchanging intelligence right up to the spring of 1941, when the germans started giving the Russian FALSE information.
Ironically neither side trusted the other to permanently hold to the non-aggression treaty, and both drew up plans to attack the others forces, however the Russian plans were slow in their creation and could not have been implemented before the Autumn of 1942 for logistical reasons. The Germans, ever efficient, sorted their problems out, surprised the Russians with a sneak attack in the Early summer of 1941...much to the cost of the Russians.
Up until Christmas 1941, it has been variously estimated the Russians lost, either killed or captured, upwards of 130 Divisions, two complete Air Armies and half their naval forces. At this point in time FDR had actually considered sending military aid to the USSR but had held back for fear of alienating congress.
His hands were freed when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour on 7 December 1941. The US declared War on Japan, and then Hitler made the insane mistake of declaring war on the US.
In January of 1942 the US and UK agreed to make Germany the priority as it posed the greater threat militarilly, and this is why the US poured the majority of it's forces into North Africa and Europe. However from the end of 1942 onwards and equal proportion of their forces were deployed to the Pacific theatre in order to counter the Japanese threat.
Following a landmark agreement in Febuary 1942, both the British and the US agreed to send military and humanitarian aid to the USSR via the Murmansk Shipyards. It is a fact, even acknowledged by Stalin, that without this aid the USSR would likely have been defeated as they would not have been able to hold off the German forces long enough to build up their reserves for the ultimate series of counter attacks that led to the fall of the beleagured and demoralised German forces from late 1943 onwards.
Both the Allied and USSR forces were equally instrumental in the ultimate defeat of both Germany and Japan, for either to have fought alone would have entailed heavier casualties and longer fighting. The German forces would not have been split into three front, and the enormous quantity of men and materials committed to one of those fronts would likely have tipped the balance in the Germans favour had the conflict been managed differently.
At the end of the War the Russians were given the green light to take Berlin. It was generally believed they had suffered the greater casualties in the war and had more of a claim, however in recent years the private diaries of the various parties involved revealed that the real reason was that they knew the defeat and occupation of Berlin would involve enormous loss of life, thus they, cynically you might say, aquiessed to the Russian demand and allowed them to suffer the estimated 280,000 casualties the Berlin Occupation cost the Red Army.
No one nation won WWII, all the Allied nations paid a vital part in the defeat of both Germany and Japan, to say one nation played a more important role than others is delusional and ignoring the facts. In fact no-one ever wins a war, you may win militarilly, but the moment you commit forces to conflict, everyone has lost as reasoned argument should stop conflict before it starts.
ah good someone else who HAS read their history!
And i agree with you about the population during the blitz, but i think the entire population and armed services were pretty much as one from doing the fighting to collecting pots and pans to make the planes
And i agree with you about the population during the blitz, but i think the entire population and armed services were pretty much as one from doing the fighting to collecting pots and pans to make the planes
Great post BigSpark!
So many great things this country has done and hard to pick a moment, but for me one of them is the Slavery Abolition Act (1833), when all slaves in the British Empire were legally given their freedom. This marks an historic moment, when a country gave up so much for what was right, a groundbreaker for human rights, making the whole world a better place regardless of the resultant problems.
Many times before and since has Britain acted in a similar vein, which is why this country is so highly regarded throughout the world.
So many great things this country has done and hard to pick a moment, but for me one of them is the Slavery Abolition Act (1833), when all slaves in the British Empire were legally given their freedom. This marks an historic moment, when a country gave up so much for what was right, a groundbreaker for human rights, making the whole world a better place regardless of the resultant problems.
Many times before and since has Britain acted in a similar vein, which is why this country is so highly regarded throughout the world.
Been registered for ages but never posted much at all
With some relevance, this up coming film by Sony Pictures may be of some interest, called Joyeux Noel. Viewable in either HD (480p recommended) or bog standard trailer.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/joyeuxnoelmerrychristmas/hd/
Had a roaring reception at the Cannes Film Festival apparently.
With some relevance, this up coming film by Sony Pictures may be of some interest, called Joyeux Noel. Viewable in either HD (480p recommended) or bog standard trailer.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/joyeuxnoelmerrychristmas/hd/
Had a roaring reception at the Cannes Film Festival apparently.
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