Great Political Leaders

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

No doubt this subject has been discussed before.

What differentiates a great political leader from a run-of-the-mill leader. Is it simply that they are good orators?
I can think of several great leaders within our memory, Winston Churchill of course, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, Martin Luther King. I suspect there are many more. I suspect many will disagree with my choices.
I may not agree with their individual politics or messages. I merely point out what I think differentiates the great from the average.
In those few cases that I have mentioned, perhaps they have reflected a ground swell of opinion, perhaps they have influenced or even generated that ground swell of opinion, perhaps they have simply vocalised and/ or internationalised that ground swell of opinion.
Perhaps some of them have gone against a ground swell of opinion and their message has been well received.

I think an average leader merely reflects and even move their messages to appease the masses.

In contrast, there are some leaders who invent fake news in order to generate a ground swell of opinion. I may have to accept that Farage is a good orator, but his message is one of divisiveness and is often simply untrue.

Currently Nigel Farage is inventing fake news:

Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage made this claim on LBC radio on Monday 20 February:
Mr Farage said ........ Sweden had seen a dramatic rise in sexual crime and its southern port city of Malmo - the third largest city in the country - had become Europe's and possibly the world's "rape capital".

In reality:

The rate of reported rapes in Malmo has not dramatically risen in recent years and has in fact declined from its peak in 2010, before the recent large increases in refugees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39056786

 

[woodbine]

The only place Blair lead us was up the garden path. He was a salesman more than a leader who knew the two golden rules of selling, 1) convince people that the product you are selling (NEW Labour!) is the best thing ever, no matter how shonky it really is, and 2) convince the people that you are selling to that they are your best friends.

Blair was just a Pied Piper who lead us to disaster, whilst filling his pockets. Dreadful person, masquerading as a socialist, but then he was right for socialism as it is riven with hypocrisy.

Mandela was a better leader than he was a terrorist, but only just.

 

[Ihavenojob]

I would never vote Labour again, but Corbyn I think is a principled man who sticks to what he believes in & will not go with something just because it is a vote winner (tax cuts, WMD etc ) Maggie could have been greater if she didnt sell of most of the country's assets. Bliar & Mandella, evil bast ards both.

 

[^woody^]

In reality:

"Reality Check verdict: Malmo, along with other urban centres in Sweden, has one of the highest levels of reported rapes in proportion to population in the EU, mainly due to the strictness of Swedish laws and how rape is recorded in the country."

That's from the same link.

Why are you posting take news?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

"Reality Check verdict: Malmo, along with other urban centres in Sweden, has one of the highest levels of reported rapes in proportion to population in the EU, mainly due to the strictness of Swedish laws and how rape is recorded in the country."

That's from the same link.

Why are you posting take news?

It is not fake news. If you read the whole of sentence which you posted, you will see the explanation as to why it has high levels of reported rape.
The very next sentence, to the one you posted is:

The rate of reported rapes in Malmo has not dramatically risen in recent years and has in fact declined from its peak in 2010, before the recent large increases in refugees.

So not only is Trump and Farage wrong, they are intentionally misrepresenting actual facts, i.e. they are alleging that rape has risen in Malmo, and in Sweden in general, when the reverse is true. That was my original point!
Also:

Trump's wrong, it's 'quiet and safe' in Malmo
2 hours ago

Crime is going down, not up, according to police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39074420

So yet again you make an accusation that is a false accusation. In your attempt to justify it you misinterpret my original comment.
If you look very carefully, you will see that I clarified the real position about rape having risen since the intake of refugees.
You addressed some imaginary point that I did not make about there being more reported rape in Malmo than anywhere else.
If you are incapable of reading what is written correctly, perhaps you should go back to school to learn to read.

You will note that I do provide the links for the reader to check the veracity of my comments. Unlike you, who provide unverifiable pictures and imaginary links to nowhere.

Your imagination in inventing inaccurate notions in the written word possibly explains your first false accusation.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

...Blair ..
Mandela ..

Corbyn .....Maggie..... Bliar .... Mandella,

I did say I did not necessarily agree with their messages. But as leaders they did stand out. They did not sway and swing with popular opinion in order to maintain their popularity. I do not think that they exploited fake news either, in order to justify their beliefs or persuade others to rally to their cause.

Corbyn may be principled, but that alone does not infer greatness.

 

[^woody^]

You selectively quoted text from that article to support your own agenda.

When in fact, the article actually supported Farage's claim regarding Malmö.

So even when you do copy, you completely mess it up and do exactly what you accuse Trump and Farage of .

intentionally misrepresenting actual facts

Post some definitions of irony and hipocrisy

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

You selectively quoted text from that article to support your own agenda.
When in fact, the article actually supported Farage's claim regarding Malmö.
So even when you do copy, you completely mess it up and do exactly what you accuse Trump and Farage of .
Post some definitions of irony and hipocrisy

You are still misinterpreting the written word.
I will present it carefully, succintly, and precisely for you:

Mr Farage said ........ Sweden had seen a dramatic rise in sexual crime and its southern port city of Malmo

The rate of reported rapes in Malmo has not dramatically risen in recent years and has in fact declined from its peak in 2010,

Only you could possibly misinterpret the article and claim that it is supporting Farage's claim.
Your habit of misrepresenting facts and making false accusations is becoming an obsession.
Irony and hypocrisy is not under discussion here. The ability to comprehend the written word is, (and spell them), and we need to determine that before we can discuss more intelligent concepts.

 

[woodbine]

Reality Check: SWEDEN IS THE RAPE CAPITAL OF EUROPE.

 

[Doggit]

Fake news is somebody reporting something that knowingly is untrue. Sweden getting reported as the rape capital of the world (etc etc) is poor reporting of unchecked facts, which may or may not be true, so Farage can't be accused of inventing fake news, and to accuse him of doing that, is in fact, fake news.

I watched Chris Hume on BBC1 today saying that using wood pellets was environmentally friendly, and quietly tried to ignore having to cut down a hardwood forest to make them, and then ship them by diesel powered container ships to the UK wasn't creating more CO2 than using fossil fuel. That to me was lying - or stupidity, or both.

Tony Blair was a good orator, but a carp politician, and Corbyn isn't principled, just delusional. Mandela was a terrorist that became a politician, yet had a wife that was completely corrupt, and ran a bunch of murderous kids. And Israel only came about through acts of terrorism. History is littered with people that appeared to do good works, but their methods to get there were questionable, and some, like Tony Blair, used their position in office to commit acts of terrorism. History sometimes brushes out the initial crimes, and at other times, uncovers them.

 

[Judy in the sky]

I would never vote Labour again, but Corbyn I think is a principled man who sticks to what he believes in

Hmmm before the Referendum on Brexit, he was a committed Eurosceptic. Still didn't stop him backing the Remain campaign. Now he urges his MP's to back the Brexit negotiations. Sorry to disagree, but I don't think he's a principled man at all. After all , he is a politician.

 

[Judy in the sky]

Ahhh Wannabehimmyagain. Nearly had me fooled there. I thought this was going to be a thread about "Great Political Leaders." But you just had to put Tony Blair in there. Really, you're just using the title as an excuse to have a pop at Nigel Farage.. Anyway, whilst we're on the subject of fake news, I'd suggest you research what Churchill said and did during WW2 (no links for you though, just do some research please)

 

[^woody^]

Currently Nigel Farage is inventing fake news:

Mr Farage said ........
Sweden had seen a dramatic rise in sexual crime and its southern port city of Malmo - the third largest city in the country - had become Europe's and possibly the world's "rape capital".

BBC News said .......
"Reality Check verdict: Malmo, along with other urban centres in Sweden, has one of the highest levels of reported rapes in proportion to population in the EU, mainly due to the strictness of Swedish laws and how rape is recorded in the country."

"The 2012 UN international rape rate comparison showed Sweden to have the highest rate of rape in Europe and the second highest in the world"

 

[noseall]

Facts: The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen. But the definition of rape has broadened over time, which makes it difficult to compare the figures. It is also misleading to compare the figures with other countries, as many acts that are considered rape under Swedish law are not considered rape in many other countries.

For example: If a woman in Sweden reports that she has been raped by her husband every night for a year, that is counted as 365 separate offences; in most other countries this would be registered as a single offence, or would not be registered as an offence at all.

Willingness to report such offences also differs dramatically between countries. A culture in which these crimes are talked about openly, and victims are not blamed, will also have more cases reported. Sweden has made a conscious effort to encourage women to report any offence.

 

[JohnD]

"The 2012 UN international rape rate comparison showed Sweden to have the highest rate of rape in Europe and the second highest in the world"

Interesting use of selective quoting.

The page actually says:

"Police procedures and legal definitions vary widely around the world, making an international comparison meaningless.

The 2012 UN international rape rate comparison showed Sweden to have the highest rate of rape in Europe and the second highest in the world, but the report did not contain data for a total of 63 countries that did not submit any statistics, including, for example, South Africa, where other earlier surveys indicated a very high rape rate.

The most recent Eurostat data for the 28 EU countries also puts Sweden in the top spot.

But the agency warns that comparisons between different countries should be avoided because of differences between their legal and criminal justice systems, recording practices, reporting rates, efficiencies of criminal justice organisations and types of offences included in the categories."

Too difficult for you, I suppose.

The other link says :

"the official figures show that some countries like Hong Kong and Mongolia have zero cases reported."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

So do you believe that Hong Kong is infinitely better than Sweden?