green gunge coming from the Megaflo

[stelladroopytoes]

Hello
We moved into a new house and it has a huge megaflo tank. We have noticed today that there is a puddle of green gunk inside the cupboard and it is coming from one of the pipes. Also, there have been little blobs of gunk coming from some of the radiators every now and again. Pressure seemed to have dropped from 3 right down to .5, but when we put some more in the gague didnt move so don't think that is working anyway! We are still covered and able to contact customer care to get somebody out, but don't think that this is classed as an emergency so will probably wait until Tuesday. Can anybody tell me what this gunk is and if I am right to wait to contact customer care? Also, it makes a huge rumbling sound when the heating kicks in.
Thanks

 

[Agile]

You say its a new house but it does not sound to me like a new one!

You dont explain the basis of this "customer care" either.

My best guess is that its an older system and it has been sludged up and someone has put citric acid into the system to clear the sludge. This has dissolved some of the sludge hence the green copper citrate colour.

It has also found some weak points and those leaks need to be addressed.

Your system should be run at 1.5 Bar and should never have reached 3 Bar.

It sounds as if there are several issues and a competent heating engineer would be required to assess and decide ont he correct treatment. You are unlikely to find one in the contractors who provide this "customer care" and the terms of cover are unlikely to cover any more than stopping the leaks and solving the failure to refill.

Tony

 

[stelladroopytoes]

Hello
It is a brand new house, built buy Taylor Woodrow, finished in October 2006. We are the first owners and have lived here for 6 months. The customer care I refer to is Bryant Homes/Taylor Woodrow customer care, we have a certain amount of time to report any faults and they will send somebody out to fix them. I think the plumbing and heating is for a year. I'll give them a ring on Tuesday.
Thanks

 

[Softus]

You say its a new house but it does not sound to me like a new one!
.
.
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My best guess is that its an older system...

Why guess? Why not just ask?

 

[Agile]

Hello
It is a brand new house, . We are the first owners and have lived here for 6 months. The customer care I refer to is Bryant Homes/Taylor Woodrow customer care, we have a certain amount of time to report any faults and they will send somebody out to fix them. I think the plumbing and heating is for a year. Thanks

In that case the system needs properly flushing out and having an inhibitor like Sentinel X100 adding.

Thats after the leaks have been fixed.

Tony

 

[gas4you]

In a new house all plumbing and electrics, indeed almost everything has to be warranted for the first TWO years by builder. You need to get them back asap.

My guess is that it will be nearly all plastic pipe work except gas carcass so it could be a pushfit joint leaking somewhere.

It is very usual that new build property is not flushed, filled with inhibitor and commissioned as it should be Most ne mass market builders do not pay enough to get quality tradesmen in to do the job properly. Hence the term 'house bashers'

 

[Softus]

My guess is that it will be nearly all plastic pipe work except gas carcass so it could be a pushfit joint leaking somewhere.

I don't know why you would guess at all, and, if you had to guess, why you would make this particular guess.

Most of the new build leaks that I go to are from, in order of frequency:

1. Tap connectors (brass nut on soldered copper);
2. Brass compression couplings on copper pipe;
3. Pinholed or split copper (usually stressed during poor installation).

 

[gas4you]

I do not know of any new biulds in my area that use copper or copper/brass connections except for gas. Everything is plastic including tap connectors etc. We have several Bryant homes sites around here

 

[Softus]

I do not know of any new biulds in my area that use copper or copper/brass connections except for gas. Everything is plastic including tap connectors etc. We have several Bryant homes sites around here

Excellent! You're just the person I've been waiting to ask:

Where do you see leaks occurring on plastic pipework and pushfit fittings?

And for the leaks that you do see, is it down to component failure, or incorrect installation?

 

[gas4you]

I personally have never seen undamaged plastic pipe work leak, although I have had sparky's drill through it after I had pressure tested it and nearly wrecked the house when filling up! One of the reasons I won't do new build any more, indeed for the last 5 years

I have seen several speedfit / Hep pushfit fittings leak after approx 6/18 months and speedfit tap connectors at tap joint. Indeed my own kitchen ceiling was damaged by one after 9 months.

I have seen instances of component failure ie 'o' rings gone and also sloppy installation practices. I think that sometimes installers assume that as the pipes are flexible so are the joints and they do not ensure pipes and joints are pushed together in a straight manner first then they can be 'flexed' slightly, not the other way around There have also been some that inserts were missed out on

Also a lot of installers didn't used to fit the safety circlips to the joint ends so when hot pipe expands against joist etc joint can be 'popped' open by its self. I always used to pressure test my systems at 10 bar for 10 mins, but this does not tell you how or when it could leak at high temp

I have had colleagues who have sent faulty joints back to Manufacturers only to be told that it was damaged by flux etc

If new builds in your area are copper then good on them. Do you mean mass market builders or one off small builders? Plastic is good for speed.

To make money around here you have to first & second fix entire 4/5 bed house in 5 days or less working on your own! I don't think I could manage that any more at my age

 

[Timmyturtle]

Recently called out to a Banner Homes flat where all visible pipe work was copper.
Everything else was plastic.
C H System was losing pressure and a stain appeared in the lounge
I very neatly removed a corner piece of POSH coving to find a rodent had eaten through the side of a push-fit elbow

 

[Softus]

Thanks for taking the time to convey all that, gas4you. Very interesting stuff.

I try to avoid first fix jobs - I'd rather work in peace and quiet than have to keep my eye on my tools and hardly be able to think for the noise. I wouldn't touch first fix new build with a bargepole, but I suspect I wouldn't be quick enough (or too high quality ).

Speedfit (and Hep2o) tap connectors are often difficult animals, but I'm interested to know more about this statement of yours:

I have seen several speedfit / Hep pushfit fittings leak after approx 6/18 months

... and this one:

I have seen instances of component failure ie 'o' rings gone

Do you know what caused them to fail?

If new builds in your area are copper then good on them. Do you mean mass market builders or one off small builders?

Medium mass market - not one offs. And the copper would be good if it was installed properly. The standard of soldering is poor, and I recently had to dig up a lot of screed on the 2nd floor of a town-house to find no mechanical protection or insulation around 15mm copper pipe, because it was weeing all over the cast concrete floor and appearing in a strange spot underneath.

 

[Softus]

POSH

Qué?

 

[gas4you]

I am unfortunately no expert in diagnosing why they failed. Some appeared to have had the 'o' ring pushed out of position slightly although why these took so long to fail I don't know, I've seen 'o' rings with what looks like little 'nicks' in them. I generally think that they are so mass produced that you will get a certain amount of failures. How can they quality control all 'o' rings etc

As for state of soldering joints, I would agree with you. Around here half the 'installers monkeys' have no training what so ever and do not touch the gas etc, or so I am led to believe, nothing more than cheap pipe fitting labour. I have recently fell out with some local builders plumbing firms over installation quality and regulations etc after being called to do l/lord certs on their new build and had to tell them they were wrong!

 

[doitall]

2. Brass compression couplings on copper pipe;

dry joint no doubt

Perhaps some jointing compound