I'd be more worried about employing someone who was so easily distracted from the task in hand by trivial issues...
ground source project so far
- Thread starter mike528
- Start date
I'd be more worried about employing someone who was so easily distracted from the task in hand by trivial issues...
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sorry to of upset some of you but only intend to help guys like myself that have the sort of money that most installers request! no i didn't have one rep though the door, but i did talk to a lot of companies icredably the different stories and ideas they came up with, the most common was you cant do it yourself? why i as are the installers supper human!, if it that hard to install then it should be regulated like the gas, from what i can see is they f up like anybody else can thats how i got the pump!! OK if i've got it wrong then i've not wasted tens of thousands of pounds!. the one year old IVT pump cost me £1000 the pipework inc a 4 port manifold about £1100 and the digger and driver £350
does more pipe in the ground mean a larger ice ring in my garden or less chance of freezing
i would have liked to have gone for the raugeo helix probs but the cost to get holes bored was about £5000 for 12 holes alone and that on top of the probs about £200 each, 2x 100m bore holes over £12000, when you order from a lot of the bigger companies you get a kit of pump and ground collectors then you have to get your own plumber and ground workers to install! then the company comes along to comition
i cant say what the diferedifferenceing to be against gas as there is none local, i'm rei'mcing night storage heaters!.
my 12 vinky probes cover just under a 1/4 of a acre of garden thats in full sun, no trees or hedges obstruct the area were the collectors are and nealy twice the collectors reqiured for size of heat pump and with the roof solar collecter pumping warm water back into the ground collecter i'm hoping to recharge before any freezing take place
does more pipe in the ground mean a larger ice ring in my garden or less chance of freezing
i would have liked to have gone for the raugeo helix probs but the cost to get holes bored was about £5000 for 12 holes alone and that on top of the probs about £200 each, 2x 100m bore holes over £12000, when you order from a lot of the bigger companies you get a kit of pump and ground collectors then you have to get your own plumber and ground workers to install! then the company comes along to comition
i cant say what the diferedifferenceing to be against gas as there is none local, i'm rei'mcing night storage heaters!.
my 12 vinky probes cover just under a 1/4 of a acre of garden thats in full sun, no trees or hedges obstruct the area were the collectors are and nealy twice the collectors reqiured for size of heat pump and with the roof solar collecter pumping warm water back into the ground collecter i'm hoping to recharge before any freezing take place
no it was one of the largest companies in the country i wont say the name but you get this if you freeze!
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This is were the heat bank cylinder comes in - I just wish that yourmoneyoryourwife idiot could undrstand what I'm saying!
servotit the ground will have frozen over a long period of time one cylinder of water wont defrost it or are you suggesting you use the heat pump to constantly fill the heat bank just so you can defrost the ground, What a great idea you could then install a gas condensing boiler to provide heating and hot water whilst using the heat pump to freeze and then defrost the ground as and when required simples!!!!. 
He says that the GSHP came from a 'professional' installation that had gone horribly wrong; it doesn't really inspire confidence in the trade. There are 'professional' DIYers and cowboy 'professionals'.
servotit the ground will have frozen over a long period of time one cylinder of water wont defrost it or are you suggesting you use the heat pump to constantly fill the heat bank just so you can defrost the ground, What a great idea you could then install a gas condensing boiler to provide heating and hot water whilst using the heat pump to freeze and then defrost the ground as and when required simples!!!!.
If the machine is delivering cop3, then two goes to space heating and one to the heat bank store say. Could be a completely different ratio of course.
With a reserve buffer of energy the thermostatic valve senses the collector loop temp falling and now the buffer energy joins with the collector loop preventing freezing and extending the run time of the heat pump without depleting the natural ground energy unduly and then fully OFF for a period whilst the ground energy recovers.
The heat bank being inside the fabric of the building so any heat losses are recovered in space heating.
This is what I think ST means but I could be wrong and not aware of this being done with gshp systems.
The idea being to fully prevent any freezing occuring. It does make me think the ground collector area would be undersized.
I've never seen it done other than 4 pipe hot gas defrost in commercial/industrial refrigeration and is the No1 defrost method.
The energy not being lost but simply re cycled through the system again and of course the heat usually dumped at the condensor.
If the heat pump has been etracting energy from the ground for a week at such a rate that it becomes frozen then quite simply the extraction rate EXCEEDS the supply rate.
No heat store is going to heat a property for more than a couple of hours!
Any frozen ground is likely to need DAYs rather than hours to recover to above freezing when only heated from underneath.
Obviously when a professional system is so badly specified that it freezes the road as there is clearly a serious cowboy element at what SHOULD be the technically high end!
Tony
I think he's right. Any conventional thermal store will have a tiny heat storage capacity if compared to a large volume (say 10 or 20 cubic metres) of frozen soil.
The GSHP relies on the rate of heat extraction being less than the rate at which the heat flows back into the collector area, by conduction from the sub soil, which I seem to recall is at a fairly constant temperature of around 10 or 12 degC. If a large area of soil is being frozen, someone had got that heat balance very seriously wrong.
The GSHP relies on the rate of heat extraction being less than the rate at which the heat flows back into the collector area, by conduction from the sub soil, which I seem to recall is at a fairly constant temperature of around 10 or 12 degC. If a large area of soil is being frozen, someone had got that heat balance very seriously wrong.
If you had a heat store that could heat a property 24/7 for weeks on end then it would have to be of infinite size!
Anyway as you clearly have something in mind then provide a link to it so we can see just how small the thermal capacity really is.
As a guide a 36" x 18" cylinder is heated by a 3 kW immersion is say one hour thus consuming 3 kWh. Therefore in theory it will give that heat back as 3 kW for one hour. Or 12 kW for just 15 minutes!
So scaling that up will give you the actual maximum heat output from a larger store. As a property might need 12 kW of heating, any practical store will not heat a property for very long. There is also a problem of temperatures too!
Tony
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