Grout width for wall ceramics?

[Hallsy]

I'd always thought that in general for small ceramic wall tiles a 2mm spacer is the norm.

The ceramics I've got are 155x310mm. I've worked all of the spacing out, etc for 2mm spacing.

Just turned a box over to start tiling and it says "this material has to be fixed using a minimum grout joint of 4-5mm"

Why would that be?

I have some 5mm spacers but thought that would give a bit of a large grout line for such small tiles, although I could get some 4mm ones.

Is there likely to be a particular reason?

 

[nellyb]

Without seeing the tiles, it's difficult to say. Are they straight edged or wavy edged? If they are straight edged, 2mm is a sufficient joint. If they are wavy edged, the joint is usually a little wider dependent on how wavy they are! This is only an aesthetic thing.

Are the tiles you've got usually used as a floor tile? as that may be the reason the manufacturer has specified using wider joints. Also, the spaniards and italians do things differently to us and often print all sorts of non-sensical fixing information on the boxes.

 

[gcol]

Just to add, we have grout joints mainly for 2 reasons:
1. The tiles will, to a certain degree, expand and contract depending upon temperature and moisture. Grout is more compressible than your tile so will allow for this movement. If no (or very small) gap is left then you risk chipping to the tile edges or the tiles could even "tent" away from the wall.
2. When you buy a box of tiles, they will not all be exactly the same size. Leaving a gap allows the installer to allow for this irregularity. So, the more inconsistent the tile size is, the larger the grout gap should be to accomadate.

As a guide though, 2 or 3mm for wall tiles and 5mm for floor tiles (quarry tiles are usually 7mm).


4-5mm does seem a bit much for wall tiles. I'd check that your tiles are pretty much the same size and if so then just go with whatever grout joint you like (minimum 2mm).

 

[Hallsy]

They are these, but 15.5 x 31.6 so possibly designed for both wall & floor

http://www.toppstiles.co.uk/detail....egory=&searchval=&actionsearch=&action=&gid=2

I usually go with 5mm floor and 2mm wall but was curious.

They are uniformally shaped ceramics although the box does say they may vary slightly.

I'll have to measure a few to see how much they vary.

They are Monococcion A&M ceramica made in Spain so maybe that is why they mention a wider joint if that's what they prefer.

I'll run it by the missus, as she was commenting on how small 2mm looked!

 

[gcol]

I'll run it by the missus, as she was commenting on how small 2mm looked!

Bare in mind that the grout will make the joint look a little wider that it is without grout. For slightly larger tiles then I agree 2mm can look small. The ones in my bathroom are spaced 3mm. Plus the larger the grout gap, the less noticable it is when your tiles are uneven.

 

[Hallsy]

Yeah, noticed that some tiles have a chamfer which makes the grout gap look larger.

I'm going to have a mosaic border which has a grout joint of 3mm (due to backing sheet) so maybe I should go with 3mm all around, comprimsiing from the 2mm I was going to use and the 4mm minimum they suggest!

 

[gcol]

Good thinking Batman.

 

[nellyb]

These are probably from the Padova range if they are manufactured by azulindus & marti. If they are, they are actually floor tiles but are more often than not used on the walls. They are decent quality and don't usually vary that much in size.

 

[Hallsy]

Yeah, they are Padova, multi-format so probably designed for either.

Started fixing today, went OK considering it was my first time wall tiling and was going for a brick pattern.

Missus kept asking why I was measuring it out & double checking so many times.

We wanted the tiles to finish level with the lower window reveal (which weren't level) and use small 25mm square travertine mosaic, two high as a border.

The tiles were 155x316mm, or at least that's what the box said

As I got to the point of finishing before mosaic border I thought the space left looked little short.

It was Couldn't work it out, measurements right, grout joints OK.

Measured a tile and the 155mm was actually 157mm!! Not a lot for one tile, but 8 rows later and it's had a knock on effect

I've been very lucky in that by leaving one row of mosaic under the windows and two rows either side/everywhere else, and due to the window sills I'll be fitting that have a slight overhang it will look like the sill is covering the missing mosaic and so the 2nd row either side will finish level(ish) with the top of the sill.

Not what I had in mind originally, but I've got away with it, just

In future I shall measure the tiles themelves rather than trust the box!

Another slight oversight I had (which I should have guessed from laying the travertine floor) is that the travertine mosaic border is a touch thicker than the padova tiles which means it might stick out a bit.

Good job they're 'rusticy' tiles

 

[gcol]

Measured a tile and the 155mm was actually 157mm!! Not a lot for one tile, but 8 rows later and it's had a knock on effect

Not what I had in mind originally, but I've got away with it, just

In future I shall measure the tiles themelves rather than trust the box!

Wise words. Isn't hindsight marvellous.

 

[Hallsy]

Indeed, first time I've been caught out like that.

Funny thing is, it's sort of worked out better now as aiming for level with lower reveal meant that the window sill would then be above the border line, this way I can get them both the same height

As for the mosaics being thicker, should I just accept they are thicker and not worry too much with them being a border, or should I slant the last row of tiles to match the thickness?

 

[Softus]

Just turned a box over to start tiling and it says "this material has to be fixed using a minimum grout joint of 4-5mm"

Either you or the tile manufacturer is bull-sh*tting. A minimum is one value, not a range of values. For example, if you use 5mm, then you've exceeded the "minimum" of 4mm.

Indeed, first time I've been caught out like that.

Perhaps you've not done very much wall tiling?

Started fixing today, went OK considering it was my first time wall tiling...

 

[gcol]

I think you see where I'm coming from Softus.

 

[noseall]

i think recommended grout gaps are for practical reasons pertaining to the particular type of grout as well as the tile itself.

close butting tiles would need a very accurate tile indeed and would look daft.

also, the texture of finer grouts will only deal with a certain size gap. i guess wide joint grout should be used from 5mm upwards?

 

[gcol]

i guess wide joint grout should be used from 5mm upwards?

Bal's is 3mm