Heat bank & boiler connections

[JonasX]

In commercial operations, like hospitals,. they store hot water above 60C, like 80C, and pump it around a secondary circulation loop and blend it down with cold water at point of use. Hospitals are paranoid about health.

As Dan says, no combi, and millions are fitted, give over 60C at the taps. If you are correct half of us should have died by now.

 

[gaswizzard]

Think of the thermal store as being one big hydraulic seperator.

No.

a) It is a neutral point allowing all functions to operate independently of each other.

b) Each independent function can be tuned to operate to maximum efficiency.

c) The low pressure versions even allow high pressure mains hot water.

You need to do some reading. Read back on the recent threads on thermal stores for a starter.

You my friend need to do some reading.
Are you suggesting the space heating is fed via a seperate coil in the thermal store? , if you are you better thik again , the water pumped around the heating system is fed directly from the water in the thermal store , boilermate being one example along with a number of other manufactures.............& no it's not a neutral point , rather a point of no pressure change.

You have obviously googled one particular manufacture of TS & took it as gospel that this is how all others function.

 

[Onetap]

So, you (had) a thermal store which by your own admission was superb. Then you dumped it and do not know why you dumped it. How logical!

The thermal store reduced cycling of the non-condensing & non-modulating burner if the heating system was operating at a reduced temperature, e.g. 45 degC (as it often did).

The modulating, condensing Vaillant can, and does, operate continuously at a reduced flow temperature and a thermal store was not required.

 

[Onetap]

I repeat...


Makes you wonder how we have survived all this time don't it?

Strange logic. You only survive until you die and the long term survival rate is 0%.

The eponymous American Legionnaires had survived WW1, the 1918 'flu pandemic, the depression, WW2 and/or the Korean War and became casualties to a bacteria that caused undiagnosed respiratory infections.

 

[Dan Robinson]

And what do vaillant, baxi, viessman, intergas, vokera, potterton, WB, Main, Ravenheat, Alpha, Sime, Atag, Heatline, Ariston, Glowworm, keston, ideal, mhg et al have to say about this?

How many quote 60 degree distribution figures?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Oh, and do you think my A rated steamer (regulated via the return temperature) is as/less efficient than say a Profile when heating the same store to 80 degrees with a 35 delta?

No.

Thought not.

 

[gaswizzard]

Think of the thermal store as being one big hydraulic seperator.

No.

a) It is a neutral point allowing all functions to operate independently of each other.

Please don't confuse the 'neutral point' with 'hydraulic seperation' , two entirely different things , if you ask nicely i will school you on the differences.

 

[JonasX]

So, you (had) a thermal store which by your own admission was superb. Then you dumped it and do not know why you dumped it. How logical!

The thermal store reduced cycling of the non-condensing & non-modulating burner if the heating system was operating at a reduced temperature, e.g. 45 degC (as it often did).

The modulating, condensing Vaillant can, and does, operate continuously at a reduced flow temperature and a thermal store was not required.

A condensing boiler like yours modulates down to about 6 kilowatt. If heating demand is less than that it cycles and when the house is up to temperature, which is most of the time, demand will be far less than 6 kw. The exception is the Geminox at 1 to 10 kilowatt, one of the reasons why I am choosing it for only heating UFH eliminating a thermal store. If you need a boiler that delivers more than 10 kw you are stuffed. Then you will have to look at thermal storage.

A thermal store with TRVs all around and using an auto modulating Alpha pump can deliver 0.25 kw and no boiler cycling.

 

[Onetap]

Oh, and do you think my A rated steamer (regulated via the return temperature) is as/less efficient than say a Profile when heating the same store to 80 degrees with a 35 delta?

It would be more efficient without the thermal store. Why heat the store to 80? For DHW production, which is a small part of the annual energy consumption. Scrap the Ts and it could run at 55 with a 20 degC delta T for most of the time.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You are making big assumptions about my energy usage don't you think?

How about answering my questions?

 

[JonasX]

Think of the thermal store as being one big hydraulic seperator.

No.

a) It is a neutral point allowing all functions to operate independently of each other.

b) Each independent function can be tuned to operate to maximum efficiency.

c) The low pressure versions even allow high pressure mains hot water.

You need to do some reading. Read back on the recent threads on thermal stores for a starter.

You my friend need to do some reading.
Are you suggesting the space heating is fed via a seperate coil in the thermal store?

Yes. These are available, which you clearly did not know as you spouted cowboy views.

, if you are you better thik again , the water pumped around the heating system is fed directly from the water in the thermal store

No when the CH loop is taken from a coil in the thermals store. The CH loop is charged via the mains pressure and sealed, as per a combi. Get it? The pressurized thermal stores which have CH direct do not sludge up, as the water is not open to the atmosphere.

You obviously only know one type of thermal store, the poorly designed versions.. Get out of the business....or learn more.

 

[gaswizzard]

The pressurized thermal stores which have CH direct do not sludge up, as the water is not open to the atmosphere.

.

 

[JonasX]

Oh, and do you think my A rated steamer (regulated via the return temperature) is as/less efficient than say a Profile when heating the same store to 80 degrees with a 35 delta?

No.

Thought not.

Dan, what boiler do you have. Regulated by the return temperature sounds interesting for thermal storage.

Is there an Opentherm controller that runs off the return and modulates the burner?

 

[gaswizzard]

Jonax you are a fool , i would bet you are an armchair gooooogler , have you even seen a thermalstore?

 

[JonasX]

Oh, and do you think my A rated steamer (regulated via the return temperature) is as/less efficient than say a Profile when heating the same store to 80 degrees with a 35 delta?

It would be more efficient without the thermal store. Why heat the store to 80? For DHW production,

Dan heats his to 65C, he told us. His boiler does not cycle like yours does.