Help, bubbling gloss

[chirpychippy]

Hello may you help me please, I've got a gloss paint problem, the paint is weathershield highland green for wood and metal.

The door is hardwood, I say hardwood loosely as it is made up of four hardwoods. I applied weather shield preservative too the door followed by 2 coats of Leyland Grey undercoat oil based. I then sieved the gloss and brushed it on the door, as soon as the paint hit the undercoat it started bubbling 'tiny bubbles but thousands of them'. I know the door hasn't been contaminated in anyway I.e silicone, polish etc. So I left the gloss to completely dry, light rubbed it down wiped it off and applied anothe coat of gloss, this coat was applied with a dry brush as before and the paint bubbled exactly the same as before. The only thing I can think of is that I did not apply aluminium primer to the door, can anybody help this very stressed carpenter, cheers.

 

[dcdec]

It could be damp bristles in the brush, bittiness on the surface of door, moisture escaping from the door or the paint was cold, stand the paint in a kettle of hot water first. One other thing is there have been problems associated with certain dulux weather shield colours, can't remember the specifics but having put the wrong system on you won't get any joy from Dulux anyway
Pretty slack not putting the ali primer on particularly as you were advised to on here, in fact it sounds like you didn't put any primer on at all. Doesn't matter what you do now anyway as the paint system you have used will fail pretty quickly.

 

[chirpychippy]

I like that! Bluntness, I am sanding the entire door back to wood tomorrow and starting again with Ali primer as advised, then dulux grey undercoat x2 then gloss. But for the record I used weather shield preservative primer. Yes the paint was applied cold.

 

[dcdec]

Fair play chirpy, you took that well! reckon you learned the hard way, hope it turns out better 2nd time round. Stir it cold, leave the lid off and stick it in the warm water then stir again, its something to do with air being trapped in the paint.

 

[chirpychippy]

Broad Shoulders, water off a ducks back and knowing that its my fault, sooo, do I need Dulux Trade Aluminium Primer or a weathershield aluminium primer, please, I promise to listen this time

 

[dcdec]

I don't think there is a specific weather shield ali primer so just go for the trade aluminium wood primer.

 

[chirpychippy]

That stuff is like Air fix paint, I was carp at painting then as well. Thank you for your help dcdec, hopefully now I am doing it all properly the gloss won't misbehave. Fingers crossed.

 

[chirpychippy]

Right! Now I am really f**led off, The door has been stripped back to wood, it has been primed with Ali Primer x 2 it has received two coats of Weather shield Undercoat dark greyit has been sanded with fine sandpaper, it has been hoovered off and then wiped with a tack cloth. The paint has been sieved stirred cold then put in hot water and stirred again and left to settle, the gloss has been applied to the door with a decent brush and its bubbled. Looks like a load of ****, the jobs late, its all been done to the book and it still bubbles?

 

[sparkwright]

I don't think you mention what make the gloss actually is. I'm assuming Dulux.

You have my sympathy.



Did you thin the paint first? This may be an idea if it's a thick or trade paint. You mention you rubbed it down first time it bubbled. Does it sand nicely (once dry and hardened of course)?

Are you doing this outside?

Is the door hung in position, or lying flat?

Would you consider a different paint?

If you do, may be an idea to try a bit on some scrap wood first, as I expect you're sick of sanding.

Can you send pictures?

 

[misterhelpful]

You initially said you used Leyland oil undercoat before the Weathershield. Then you said you were going to try 2 x Weathershield undercoat. Is this what you did, or did you use the Leyland oil based again?

Are you using the water based Weathershield gloss?

I'm just wondering if you are using water based gloss on top of fresh oil based undercoat because that can often cause the paint to ciss (tiny pock marks where the gloss separates)? New formula oil based paints need plenty of time to dry before you even attempt to paint over them with a water based paint. If this is the case, then you may need to use an oil based gloss instead, or sand back and use a water based undercoat.

Other than that, I'm stumped as to what is happening.

 

[chirpychippy]

I spoke to Dulux this morning, they are stumped, everything is oil based I checked the tins.
I bought the tins of gloss from the tins of gloss from the local sheds. Dulux advised me that these paints are made for the diy market not for professional market and that they areinferior for this reason.

I argued that the labelling is exactly the same regardless from where it is bought and that this practise is misleading and the product should be labelled not fit for purpose. Dulux are reimbursing me for three tins bought from sheds, supplying me with 5 litres of trade quality gloss and a open 5 litre voucher for any weather shield paint. Let's see how I get on now.

Thank you everyone.

 

[Flyboytim]

I spoke to Dulux this morning, they are stumped, everything is oil based I checked the tins.
I bought the tins of gloss from the tins of gloss from the local sheds. Dulux advised me that these paints are made for the diy market not for professional market and that they areinferior for this reason.

I argued that the labelling is exactly the same regardless from where it is bought and that this practise is misleading and the product should be labelled not fit for purpose. Dulux are reimbursing me for three tins bought from sheds, supplying me with 5 litres of trade quality gloss and a open 5 litre voucher for any weather shield paint. Let's see how I get on now.

Thank you everyone.

Lucky you!

I don't think that their technical datasheets recommend primer and undercoat - they recommend stripping back to bare wood and then priming with their Weathershield Aquatech basecoat:

http://dulux.trade-decorating.co.uk/web/pdf/datasheets/401.pdf

It's something to spend your voucher on!

It is possible there are components of the Primer and Undercoat you used before that react badly with the paint. While you await your complimentary paintpot, try the previous paint on plain, clean wood - I'd bet it goes on fine for a first coat.

Why would Dulux incorporate a fungicide unless they expect the paint to penetrate the wood somewhat? The domestic market is just expected to whack the paint on and not be bothered with undue preparation and base coats surely?

 

[chirpychippy]

Lucky you??????????, I don't think so. And yes the door was treated with Aqua tech base coat with fungacide to begin with. Then I though cos. I used Leyland undercoat it was this that made the gloss bubble. So on the advice of someone on this site I stripped the door back to bare wood and applied Ali primer, then 2 coats of WS undercoat then re applied gloss and it bubbled.

On speaking with Dulux they informed that the Ali primer is old hat and actually invalidates the 6 year weather shield warranty but this shouldn't cause a reaction with the weather shield gloss. Everything I have used is oil based so its not water and oil mixing.

Lastly how much were you betting as I have applied the same gloss to redwood iroko and oak and it bubbled on all three. I am not having a go at anyone, I am just ****ed off with it all. Cheers.

 

[chirpychippy]

Lucky you??????????, I don't think so. And yes the door was treated with Aqua tech base coat with fungacide to begin with. Then I though cos. I used Leyland undercoat it was this that made the gloss bubble. So on the advice of someone on this site I stripped the door back to bare wood and applied Ali primer, then 2 coats of WS undercoat then re applied gloss and it bubbled.

On speaking with Dulux they informed that the Ali primer is old hat and actually invalidates the 6 year weather shield warranty but this shouldn't cause a reaction with the weather shield gloss. Everything I have used is oil based so its not water and oil mixing.

Lastly how much were you betting as I have applied the same gloss to redwood iroko and oak and it bubbled on all three. I am not having a go at anyone, I am just ****ed off with it all. Cheers.

 

[dcdec]

I don't see how Dulux can describe the AWP as old hat, hard woods are resinous, are they saying you should use a different product? If its old hat why do they still produce it? Used some myself last summer on a new mahogany window sill, back to the same house at the weekend for a quick job and its still fine.

Is the temperature you are applying the paint in within the guidelines? I'm presuming you're doing the painting in a garage or something. Weathershield post 2010 has extended drying times and you must leave the maximum recommended time. In fact leave it for as long as you can between coats.
Could the door have had high moisture content pre-painting? or been hit by frost, dew or any watery film on the doors surface between coats? Are you ensuring that you use different brushes for oil based work and water based?

I'm sure i read somewhere that dulux have had problems with certain weather shield colours, i think it was more a problem with pigment separation but worth pressing them a bit.

As for retail being inferior, why sell it then? Trade has better pigmentation and obliteration/coverage, but generally i would have thought, binders, resins, fillers etc would be the same.

If i was you i would ditch the dulux go and get some sikkens XD or little green.

And BTW all this is the exact reason why i ditched the Dulux range several years ago.