Help me understand what this beam is.

[Dannyboyski]

Hoping this isn’t structural, because i would like to move it to make our loft conversion a little larger. If I kick it, it moves a fair bit. Haven’t gone in with the crow bar yet because I was hoping to find out what it is first. Is it a roof binder? It runs at 90 degrees to the floor joists

Many thanks

Dan

 

[noseall]

Is it a roof binder?

Yes, a ceiling binder. I'd expect to see another one on the other side.

make our loft conversion a little larger

Loft conversion?

 

[Dannyboyski]

Thanks Noseal, There is indeed another on the other side.

Yeah we’re renovating this place and plan to add a couple more bedrooms on the top floor.

now I know what it is I’ll speak to our structural engineer, but if you or anyone else have any words of wisdom regarding whether this can be removed safely I would be very grateful.

thanks

dan

 

[Mottie]

If you’re having a loft conversion, don’t you have to have steel RSJ's and thicker joists added? If so, won’t they bring the finished floor level up to that height anyway?

 

[bobasd]

If your intention is a loft conversion then no part of your present flooring arrangement will stand BCO's or structural scrutiny.
You dont need a SE - you simply need a properly worked out set of drawings before making any next move.

Dont touch the binders, they have no hangers, and if they did have hangers then all weight would be transferred to the unsupported purlins,
and might lead to possible joist sagging with a heavier floor load.
The makeshift floor you have at the moment is literally, a storage shelf - its not a structural floor.

Just saying: there doesn't appear to be underfelt on your roof?
When we did loft conversions the first move was to remove all insulation from the loft, and then vacuum out every nook and cranny - well at least the apprentices did.

 

[Dannyboyski]

Loft floor joists are already plenty large enough. And have been approved by our structural engineer as they are.

I will get up there later and take some better photos and measurements.

 

[Dannyboyski]

I think the roof was installed back when felt was not available. It’s had multiple coats of tar on the outside(I kid you not!) apparently the bloke that had it before us used to tar every year. we’re ripping the whole thing off and re slating it with membrane this time.

 

[^woody^]

Loft floor joists are already plenty large enough. And have been approved by our structural engineer as they are.

I will get up there later and take some better photos and measurements.

If they have been "approved" then have they have been approved with or without the binder?

Binders, as the name suggests bind ceiling joists together to stop them bowing and cracking the ceiling, and are used when the joists are too slender to support themselves. I can't believe that an engineer would "approve" ceiling joists for use as a floor when they are supported by a binder - elese why would the binder be there in the first place?

 

[Dannyboyski]

Thanks everybody for taking the time to reply.

We have a large project going on & the house needs a lot of work; the structural engineer was really here to discuss complete removal of the kitchen chimney breast and removal of the wall on the ground floor. (knock two rooms into one) in passing he said the floor for the loft was plenty. at that stage I hadn't even considered the need to move the binders. so it was not discussed.

Just been up with my tape measure and the loft floor joists are 3" x 6" with 13" spacing.

I took a few more pictures whilst I was up there. my question in this thread has already been answered now. but if anyone has any words of wisdom on what to do with this space I would be very grateful.

 

[Dannyboyski]

Pics

 

[bobasd]

My assumptions were wrong - 3" x 6" is a surprise and they will span halfway across fine - so i now assume you have supporting walls below?
3" x 6" wil span about 11ft 6" and i guestimate your total span at about 20ft.

A SE or a RICS might still require different flooring arrangements for a loft conversion?

The binders may have been moved back in the past - perhaps to give more floor space.

 

[Dannyboyski]

My assumptions were wrong - 3" x 6" is a surprise and they will span halfway across fine - so i now assume you have supporting walls below?
3" x 6" wil span about 11ft 6" and i guestimate your total span at about 20ft.

A SE or a RICS might still require different flooring arrangements for a loft conversion?

The binders may have been moved back in the past - perhaps to give more floor space.

One of the few nice “surprises” we have encountered!

Yes we have brick supporting walls below. Total joist span is 9m ish (30ft) from inner cavity wall to inner cavity wall.

 

[catlad]

The binders looks to be there to support the purlin posts in some fashion.

 

[Leofric]

Yes we have brick supporting walls below. Total joist span is 9m ish (30ft) from inner cavity wall to inner cavity wall.

Do you mean the 'binder' span is 9m ? What is the maximum span of the 'floor joists' on to a brick partition wall ?

 

[catlad]

Looks like you have found an old chimney there, that could be your new dumb waiter!