HELP please...neighbour built patio above my blue bricks...

[vinn]

OP,
FWIW, I should be very cautious about approaching your insurers - you could end up "red flagging" yourself for no particular gain but an increase in your premiums.
Why not wait until you've exhausted the other avenues suggested above?

1. Is the kitchen wall solid or a cavity wall?
2. Is there cavity insulation in the wall?
3. Is the wall rendered?
4. Is that an edge of membrane (DPM) from under the concrete floor peeping up in the pics where the floor meets the wall?
5. Is your kitchen FFL (finished floor level) higher than the ground outside?
6. You have gypsum plaster on the wall - the wall should have been rendered with sand & lime.
7. Has anyone mentioned cavity bridging - debris in the cavity?

 

[^woody^]

OP,
FWIW, I should be very cautious about approaching your insurers - you could end up "red flagging" yourself for no particular gain but an increase in your premiums.
Why not wait until you've exhausted the other avenues suggested above?

1. Is the kitchen wall solid or a cavity wall?
2. Is there cavity insulation in the wall?
3. Is the wall rendered?
4. Is that an edge of membrane (DPM) from under the concrete floor peeping up in the pics where the floor meets the wall?
5. Is your kitchen FFL (finished floor level) higher than the ground outside?
6. You have gypsum plaster on the wall - the wall should have been rendered with sand & lime.
7. Has anyone mentioned cavity bridging - debris in the cavity?

If the neighbour is causing the damp due to his raised patio, then that's all that matters and no-one should have to put up with problems that caused by others.

None of those items would make a difference if they did exist, but the actual cause was the neighbour's patio.

 

[vinn]

Agreed but the info we have been given is intriguing to me, and it might just be that the neighbour's patio is not the "problem". I await the pics.
The questions/answers would inform my curiosity and give the OP a better understanding of her building/remedial details for whatever purpose.

Here's an angle on what happened with an open and shut case in a court room - the award was made to us but reduced by the judge because the other side convinced him that existing (hidden) conditions, although concealed, were a factor in the defendant's favour.

 

[^woody^]

Agreed but the info we have been given is intriguing to me, and it might just be that the neighbour's patio is not the "problem". I await the pics.
The questions/answers would inform my curiosity and give the OP a better understanding of her building/remedial details for whatever purpose.

Here's an angle on what happened with an open and shut case in a court room - the award was made to us but reduced by the judge because the other side convinced him that existing (hidden) conditions, although concealed, were a factor in the defendant's favour.

The OP mentioned that people have been out and started that the patio is at fault.

Tbh, many people go with the "not 150mm below DPC level", as a defacto cause of dampness. I've done the same. But I've also argued that 150mm below is arbitrary and the cause of penetrating damp is purely related to a wall defect. Each case will turn on its own facts.

But in this case, if the damp we not there before the patio was altered, and then it appeared after the patio was raised, then that's a very good indication that the cause is the patio, and the responsibility is with the neighbour.

 

[bernardgreen]

Since when have you needed Building Control Approval or Planning permission to build a patio?

from https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/44/patio_and_driveway

Elsewhere around your house there are no restrictions on the area of land which you can cover with hard surfaces at, or near, ground level.
However, significant works of embanking or terracing to support a hard surface might need a planning application.

at, or near, ground level.

If patio is above the damp proof course of an immediately adjacent building then it is definately not at and probably not even near ground level.

 

[wessex101]

The OP mentioned that people have been out and started that the patio is at fault.

Tbh, many people go with the "not 150mm below DPC level", as a defacto cause of dampness. I've done the same. But I've also argued that 150mm below is arbitrary and the cause of penetrating damp is purely related to a wall defect. Each case will turn on its own facts.

But in this case, if the damp we not there before the patio was altered, and then it appeared after the patio was raised, then that's a very good indication that the cause is the patio, and the responsibility is with the neighbour.

The 150mm is not just an arbitary figure. I forget who it was now but BRE or British Standards did research and concluded the average British raindrop splashes up 150mm when it hits the ground apparently. Or is that one of those urban myths.

As for the final paragraph that is just circumstancial and certainly not to the standard of balance of probability required in court. It could just be that the OP's guttering started to leak at about the same time or a waste pipe in the kitchen started to drip.

As for the unsubstantiated word of the "experts" the photos show the drill holes of a remedial DPC, I wonder if the expert is a damp proofing contractor and if so how often do they misdiagnose causes of damp in favour of expensive remedial treatments and re-plastering. Blaming the neighbour's patio is then a convenient excuse for their own failing.

 

[^woody^]

The 150mm is not just an arbitary figure. I forget who it was now but BRE or British Standards did research and concluded the average British raindrop splashes up 150mm when it hits the ground apparently. Or is that one of those urban myths.

The British Raindrop has been usurped by EU rain drops, so the 150mm height has not been valid for a long time, but thats for another thread and another time.

I've often seen splashes above 150mm, so dont think that it is a definitive height, but perhaps more of an average height that works for certain situations. Sometimes a lower ground level is required.

But back on topic, the OP's photos indicate a severe damp problem in a single location, and above the level of previous injection. So if next door's patio is above that line, and in that location, and is directing surface water to the wall above that line, then that's a very good indication of the likely cause.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

from https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/44/patio_and_driveway


at, or near, ground level.

If patio is above the damp proof course of an immediately adjacent building then it is definately not at and probably not even near ground level.

We haven't seen the site or the levels, so we simply do not know that.

 

[vinn]

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[Newboy]

@vinn

Possibly not returned because they have to endure imbecilic comments and unsolicited gender re-assignment?

 

[vinn]

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http://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/forum-rules-general-info.19448/
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[Newboy]

Pointless reply to a pointless reply deleted - life's too short!

 

[Nige F]

we've waited long enough .

we sure have

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

The matter may also now be in the hands of Solicitors, in which case it would be prudent not to post pictures on a Public forum, or indeed do anything which may prejudice the case.