Help please. New uPVC window frame is not straight

[fluff29]

the window is definately externally beaded.

if the internal rubber is co-extruded beading then that would explain why it is snug against the frame and doesn't sit snug against the window.

is there any downfalls for the future if there continues to be a gap between the glass and the internal rubber?

thanks

 

[fluff29]

another couple of pictures to show internal rubber

from above

View media item 17573
from the side

View media item 17574

 

[crank39]

Right,so its also probably a co-extruded frame profile by the sound of it which as you say is tight against the pvc but not so against the glass, personally id like it a bit tighter than what you've got.

Short of making the unit thicker theres not much you can do if the rubber is right and the bead too

Just to throw you a curve ball technically your ext beads are dead easy to remove!!! Unless under them are security clips to stop burglars removing the glass once they have the beads out.

Sorry

 

[crank39]

Defo co-extruded, the rubber is flat and doesn't protrude out from above the pvc.

So under your ext beads you absolutely must must must have security clips because a 5 years old could remove em

 

[fluff29]

thanks for that info.

I will ask the question tomorrow about the security clips.

Why is the rubber not tighter then?

The other windows previously installed in the house and other window that was fitted has rubbers which fit snug to both the pane of glass and the frame?

 

[crank39]

Fluff if it profile 22 and im guessing you have FS 70 fully sculptered, if so they use bubblex gaskets.

A quick search and i found this pic, its not supprising you can get a card in.....

http://www.nottinghamdoorcompany.co.uk/images/upvc-doors/bubblex.jpg

Its defo a foamy rubber type, this does not push the glass out enough to lock your beads in so it imperative you have security clips fitted, just ask them and maybe watch them fit em when the new window goes in

 

[fluff29]

hubby just said that the fitter said that they have to use a key unique to themselves that they put in and turn to move hooks which hold the glass in place.

would this be classed as security clips?

 

[Burnerman]

Hi Fluff, and thanks for the update on this cursed window.
Back to reality, I think....there are a couple of reasons why there are gaps between the glazing panel and the window frame.
First, the frame has been installed out of square (in all dimensions) due to the fitter not really caring what he is doing.
Second, if the glazing unit doesn't fit tightly into the beads, it could be that it has been made fractionally too thin for that particular frame.
Thats it, in a nutshell I think... there are millions of double glazed upvc units out there.....I've never seen one that was left completed with gaps such as yours. The fitter or manager or whoever needs to see the other units that have been fitted for you, with no gaps. All they need to do is to fit this one the same.
Just a point about window security...some types are fitted with sticky both sides foam tape - and once this is used there's no way the glass unit can be removed simply or quickly! Take it calmly if you can - stress isn't recommended.
Best wishes for the outcome! John

 

[crank39]

Just looked and profile 22 do use clips and the external beaded system, from what your hubby descibes then yes it sounds like a clip, there are various types and they all work in different ways but essentially they are an obsticle in the way of the glass foiling the burglar

Phew!

FAO Burnerman

Units vary in sizes by 2 mm increments so to make a thicker unit might make it too tight to clip the beads in, profile 22 uses 24mm or 28mm, most windows now only use these 2 sizes, not 26mm or 30mm, i reckon the unit is right, its the gasket that isn't substantial enough IMO

 

[fluff29]

hi john

I am hoping that the frame is the problem as they will be using the existing window which is in the current frame.

If they fit the new frame and the existing pane of glass and there is still a gap at the rubber, should I accept this?

I have tried telling them that the other window does not have a gap but they seem to think that this gap has no significance in the way that the window will perform over the years.

I just don't want to be left in 5years time, when the owner retires and the busines is no longer there and having problems caused by the gap in the rubber. It is a very small company.

thanks again

fluff

 

[Burnerman]

As Wafty says, double glazing units increase in size by increments - they wont be infinitely variable.
So, if the glass unit allows gaps - and is therefore slack in the frame - this is surely unacceptable. All of the DG units I've fitted, I've never come across this....
I can't see how the manufacturers / fitters cannot see a problem, especially as the other units that you have appear to be nice and tight!
John

 

[fluff29]

Continuation of the saga.

New frame put in.

There are small chips and surface scores on the new frame - don't know why this is. Is it normal not to get a window frame which is almost perfect. I would not have bothered about these if the window had been fitted perfect first time round but I have looked at it closely now.

Still not sure if the frame in the top corner may still have a bend it it. We have yet to put the spirit level on it.

What is the best way to check that a frame is square?

The rubbers!!!!!

Still have the same problem on the one fixed window pane. It is worse than before.

I put a piece of paper between the rubber and the window pane. The piece of paper goes slightly down below the top of the spacer bar (I looked from the outside). I will try to get a picture to show you.

The words of the owners is that he checked the window and it is 101% perfect.

will go and try getting a picture now.

fluff

 

[fluff29]

we have put a spirit level on the frame like the first pictures that I posted. The gap isn't nearly as bad but there is still about a 2mm gap between the spirit level and the window frame. Not as bad as before - will this cause any probs at later date?

Here is a picture where I have put a bit of paper in the gap between the rubber and window pane on the inside then taken a picture from the outside.

View media item 17605
this is picture of the gasket which is in the window that opens. this is also the same type of gasket which is in the fixed pane.

View media item 17606
To make matters worse or possibly better. I checked the gasket on the other window which was installed. The inside is flush with the glass but the outside has a gap (we noticed alot of dirt and sand between the rubber gasket and the window pane). I went outside and could fit a piece of card comfortable between the rubber outside and the pane of glass.

Whilst doing this, I used the piece of card to bring the dirt out of the gasket. When I pulled the card sideways and upwards, the dirt came out along with water - it was raining today.

Will my outside window be ok with a gap where the water gets in between the gasket and glass?

Just want to see where we are before I contact the owner tomorrow about the chips.

thanks

fluff

 

[Burnerman]

Hello Fluff
I'm so sorry to be reading this. It seems that your window people should have gone to Specsavers.
I think the 2mm gap in the frame is just about acceptable, and it won't compromise this installation.
However, I've never come across any window where you can get a piece of card in between the glazing panel and the window beads...that just isn't on. It seems that the glazing unit is either too thin, or that maybe some double sided glazing tape should have been used to fill that impending gap. This stuff sticks the glazing unit into place, and its available from between 1mm and 5mm thick, I think. Its just my opinion, but I think that the life of the glazing panel would be compromised by leaving it this way.
If the frame is scratched and chipped, this says to me that he has used some second hand stuff that he has had lying around...I'd be inclined to tackle him about that, too.
So, he thinks that the job is 101%? Curious, that...can you show him one of the perfect frames in the house, and say 'thats what I want'?
Personally I think he's a liar and he doesn't give a toss.
Really sorry to be posting this...I thought it would be the end of this one.
Best wishes! John

 

[crank39]

Im sorry too, when you put the paper in does it slip in easy or does it fold up and crease? If it goes in easily then its wrong and have to agree with burner, i have never seen a window that does this.

As for the rubber and water outside, well water will always get past the gasket which is why the bottom of the window has drainage holes put in, as burner says if too much water sits in the bottom over time it will cause the dg unit to fail, the glass is acctually supported off the pvc with the glazing packers so the water shouldnt get that deep, it should drain out way before then

As for the chips and scratches then no its not acceptable and certainly isnt 101%

Are these people FENSA or GGF registered?