Help please. New uPVC window frame is not straight

[fluff29]

hi guys

the picture with the piece of paper was pushed in easily and did not crease. It is pretty much like this the majority of the way around this pane. Doesn't happen on the window that opens on this frame.

the other window, which is ok, except that when I went outside, I could easily slide the piece of card in the gap and remove the sand type substance which was in the gap.

it would appear that both windows have this gap, just so happens that we never noticed the downstairs window because the gap was outside on this window and in general it looked ok.

just really annoyed because the new frame I would imagine should be quite perfect and not have marks on it or is it normal for upvc frames to have marks on them when supplied new?

I know that they will say that the gap is fine. I am going to pop into the other DG companies and have a look at their windows.

WC - don't think they are FENSA or GGF registered - not on their invoice anyway and I would have thought they would want to advertise this.

thanks for all your help

fluff

 

[Burnerman]

fluff.
What Wafty says is absolutely true...your glazed unit must not sit in water or it will fail prematurely. Spacers are used so that the glazing unit sits on these, rather than the frame itself. Drainage holes in the plastic frame allow water to weep away.
The sand type substance that wicks up the paper you are using is just normal grot that is in the atmosphere; its running down the pane and collecting where there is a gap...which shouldn't be.
Any newly supplied window frame should be scratch and chip free. the plastic extrusions that make these usually have a plastic film stuck on them to keep it that way.....removed once fitted. Any rough stuff usually indicates that its second hand.
Do go and check out other DG manufacturers products...invite them to come round if they will. I'm certain they will rightly ridicule your existing window.
I'm so sorry about this, but I'm afraid your window man is a total fraud, but thats only my opinion...he's filling you with bovine excrement.
John

 

[crank39]

Windows sometimes get banged about,scratched and chipped in transit, sometimes you'll peel the protective tape of to reveal a scratch, yes it happens but thats not your problem.....new window please!

Its intresting to hear they are not FENSA registered, WHO has given you the installation certificate???

Sometimes windows are fitted by a frien of a friend who isnt registered, meaning YOU have to get in touch with your local council building control department and they will send their own inspector to look over the installation, charge a fee and write you out a certificate, from 2002 this is the law, if you ever sell your house you'll need this certificate

Were you aware of this fluff??? May be an idea to let the council see the gaps because if they wont approve the fitting then you have more ammunition against CR SMITH, just an idea

 

[fluff29]

oh no.

I live in Scotland, do I need a certificate here? Never heard of this before.

I have no certificate - I only got an invoice saying that the bill was paid in full. I never got a certificate from CR Smith when they installed new doors in 2005 either.,

It isn't CR Smith who are it fault here. The CR Smith windows which are in my current house have been well installed by the previous owner. I had probs with CR Smith doors in my old house.

with regards to the sand type stuff. I actually noticed this just after the windows were installed but was so pre-occupied with the bend in the other window. I would say that the sand was there when installed.

 

[crank39]

Forgot you are in Scotland so just checked and there is a slight difference in your regs...

http://www.double-glazing-uk.co.uk/scotland.asp

Also dont be to frightened about the cert and the council, they just pop out, take a quick look at the fitting,make sure its pilkington 'K' or low E glass, or toughened if its got to be then issue you with a cert, its straight forward, usually about £70 to £100 here but do check.

Your gaps in the glass may lower the U value so it might work in your favour by not being able to get the cert, then just drop it back on CR Smiths lap and say sort it

 

[crank39]

"Your gaps in the glass may lower the U value"

Sorry mistake,meant increase the U value

 

[fluff29]

Morning (not a good morning)

I have found an interesting fact. From looking at both windows which were installed and this included the opening pane of the upstairs window, it would appear that the gap appears on the side of the glass which doesn't have the removal bead. Don't know what this means but it appears that both windows are like this so things are consistant.

I have e-mailed profile 22 to ask them if this should happen.

Spoke to the owner. He said that he can do nothing about the gaps. The frames are bought in from profile 22, the glass unit is bought in from another company and they mearly fit them together. He said that all windows that he installs are to these exact specification with the same width frame and glass unit.

It may be that the gap should and will always be there but it should not compromise the unit.

Told him about the surface marks and small gouges and scratches on the frame. He said that they are all wiped down before leaving the factory and can't understand why this has happened.

He needs to look at the frame in the daylight and therefore I will be getting him around week commencing 21 December, as I am on holiday this week.

He said that no DG company will make windows which are 1 million percent perfect, I only want frames with no gouges out of the plastic.

Will update you on when he has been around.

Hubby doesn't want them to fix them again anyway.

Giving up the will to live now.

Thanks again

Fluff

 

[Burnerman]

Hi fluff
As for the window frames being gouged, and the owner doesn't know why - he's a liar. He's not coming clean about the new frame (which should be absolutely perfect) and I doubt he never will. As I said before, I reckon he's re-used bits from another frame that he had lying around.
So, lets recap? The windows are externally beaded. There is no gap between the outer beads and the glass panel for water to get in - correct?
The gap that you see is on the inside, between the frame and the glass - correct?
If this is so, I don't think things will be compromised glass unit wise, although I've never noticed this before.
Is there any money outstanding? If there is, don't pay.
Apart from driving my car through his showroom window, if I could be bothered I'd check out other companies products, to see what they are like.
Its about time this was settled
John

 

[fluff29]

Hi John

I have checked the 2 windows which were installed.

Window 1
-Beaded internally.
The gap between rubber and glass is on the external pane. I put a piece of card down the gap to remove the sand last night and there is definately water in this gap. The card however does not go all the way to the bottom of the inside of the frame. I would say that the card when down about 4-5 mm. Therefore, the water is not actually getting in under the window pane and is only sitting in this gap. Would this be correct? Looking at the style of the rubber, I would think that the section in the middle of the top and bottom of the seal as you look at it from the front when fitted in the window would be tight against the glass and this is what the card is hitting.

Window 2 - problem window
-Fixed pane - beaded externally
The gap between rubber and glass is on the internal pane.
-Opening pane on this window - not sure if inter/external beading
The gap between rubber and glass is on the external pane.

I am thinking that the gap will always be on the fixed frame side and the removable beading side will always be tight. This is going on the basis of the gap also being on the opposite side of the removable beading side.

Hope this makes sense.

Still no reply from profile 22 on whether this is normal.

Other than showing the owner the gouges, I have no intentions of getting them to do further repairs. The marks will be hidden by my blinds. The window frame is nearly perfect and if profile 22 come back saying that the gaps in the rubber are fine, then I will be satisfied that the windows are ok.

Thanks again.

Fluff

 

[Burnerman]

Hi Fluff
Window 1 - I've never heard of any rubber seal that is below the surface of the window bead...however if there is any water in there it shouldn't do any harm as presumably water can't get near the bottom of the glazing unit. However if it was mine I'd run a bead of silicone in there just to fill it up - ensuring that it was dry in there, of course.
Window 2 - I'd do the same with the silicone on the opening window - the other internal bit I'd leave alone.
For sanity's sake I'd close on this now, and put a curse on the window people every Halloween...it is a shame about the gouges and scratches though
How could you imagine that a flaming window would give you so much grief?
Best wishes
John

 

[crank39]

I think window 1 is ok

Window 2 you say is ext bead so technically so should the opener, in 20 years i ve never seen a mix and match window so to speak. But you say one gap is inside and the other is outside, hmmm this is odd, lets hope profile 22 get back to you soon.

Wish i lived closer to you, id love to have a look and fix it for you

 

[fluff29]

Hi wafty & burnerman

Thank you both for support and help.

Still awaiting profile 22's response. Will let you know if I get any good feedback.

Have a nice christmas

Fluff

 

[crank39]

Fluff have a good one yourself, dont let this window spoil it for you .

And burner, you have a nice crimbo too

 

[Burnerman]

Its been a crazy couple of weeks for a window!
Best wishes to both of you and Happy Crimbo!
John

 

[masona]

He said that no DG company will make windows which are 1 million percent perfect,

Sorry to hear all this but he's wrong I have fitted loads of dg windows with no problem.