Help replacing 2 2 way 2 gang switches that are labelled different

[sparkwright]

Very interesting to see some Australian fittings, completely different to our stuff.

 

[securespark]

Although Clipsal did make a very similar range of switches (albeit on UK plates). Up to 5 Gang on a single plate.
https://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/item.aspx?i=18302

 

[sparkwright]

Although Clipsal did make a very similar range of switches (albeit on UK plates). Up to 5 Gang on a single plate.
https://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/item.aspx?i=18302

I remember those.

 

[securespark]

Got me out of a spot where I needed a 4 gang switch in a small space.

 

[flameport]

Up to 5 Gang on a single plate.

The Crapsall range, which was usually broken before it was installed, and if not, it broke while it was being installed.
Can go in the same waste skip as those consumer units with 3 letter brands on them, Kidde smoke alarms and those cheapo 'trade pack' socket outlets where at least 50% broke within a month.

 

[sparkwright]

Not sure what the cheapo trade sockets were - could they be the Marbo ones that seemed to come with Wylex consumer units about 15 years ago?

That Clipsall stuff always seems to be fitted in motor homes, in a cream colour finish.

 

[sparkwright]

Actually, I do remember some nasty square cornered sockets that builders would supply (presumably from a builders merchant) which always had a slight bend in the front that you couldn't do anything about.

 

[plugwash]

Got me out of a spot where I needed a 4 gang switch in a small space.

BTW if you are in a similar situation again scholmore do a 4 gang 2 way switch on a "single" sized plate.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_four_gang_wall_plate.jpg and
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_four_gang_wall_plate_-_cover_removed.jpg
for photos of the typical switches/switch-plates in question (With and Without the Cover Plate.)

With the Cover Plate the screws are not accessible.
Without the Cover Plate, the screws are still not accessible (except with a tool), because the screws are set in a small diameter hole, too deeply to be touched by an adult human finger. (6 mm deep)

Further, "back boxes" are used only in missionary walls (since there they are necessary) - and, these days, they are usually plastic. (https://hpm.com.au/product/standard-wall-box/ )
The older metal boxes were not earthed, because the construction of the switch plates and socket-outlets did not require earthing.
(However, some present day metal wall boxes do have an earthing terminal (https://hpm.com.au/product/wall-boxes-fire-120-120-and-acoustic-rated/ )

In "plaster board" walls, the switch plates are often affixed to Mounting Clips, which "crimp" over the edge of the cut-out in the plaster-board (https://hpm.com.au/product/mounting-clips-for-6-4mm-plasterboard/ ) These "clips" are not earthed.
(If the wall plate is later removed for any reason, there is a risk of the Mounting Clip falling off and down the inside of the stud wall. Hence, it is good practice to apply rubber adhesive or silicone between the mounting plate and the back of the plaster board to prevent such a "nuisance" from happening in the future.)

Non-earthed "Mounting Brackets" are affixed to "studs" during building construction (https://hpm.com.au/product/mounting-bracket-horizontal-stud-mount/ )

Socket-outlets with a (non-earthed) metal cover plate are shown in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Metal_Cover_-_(plus_an_additional_switch).jpg

Sorry but you cannot compare the fittings that you have available in Oz with the fittings in the UK. just because you say a screw is in a 6mm deep hole it cant be touched by a human fingerdoes not make it safe, what about a childs finger?? Back boxes in Oz may be "usually plastic" but not here. I thought it was only the states that had dodgy looking wiring accessories but it seems I was wrong

 

[FrodoOne]

Sorry but you cannot compare the fittings that you have available in Oz with the fittings in the UK. just because you say a screw is in a 6mm deep hole it cant be touched by a human fingerdoes not make it safe, what about a childs finger?? Back boxes in Oz may be "usually plastic" but not here. I thought it was only the states that had dodgy looking wiring accessories but it seems I was wrong

I suspected that someone might make a comment like that!

The real point is that there is no exposed metal object on any Australian/NZ switch plate - as there is on those of the UK, North America and elsewhere.

I wonder how you can equate the Australian/NZ (virtually) all plastic switch gear (without metal "yokes') and with deep set-screw rear connectors (as in the UK) with the exposed side-connecting flat-head screws used in "dodgy" North American accessories. (North American, since they are used in Canada, as well as in the USA.)

(Did you not note that "Back Boxes" are not used (or even available) in Australia for any except masonry walls?)

It is unlikely that a "child" would be taking off any Australian/NZ (modern) "cover-plate" - nor would they have the hand width, strength and "dexterity" to do so.
(I find it difficult enough, at times - without the "assistance" of a slotted screwdriver.)
Even if they did, any metal screw is inserted into a metal plate (or metal "inserts" in a plastic "mounting-plate") which is mounted only on timber or plaster-board, or set in a "masonry" wall - all of which are (relatively) non-conductive.

In other terms, all those mounting screws are "floating", as "clear of Earth" as the wall to which they are physically connected.

If you look at the wiring at the rear of an Australian socket-outlet (without a back-box) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dual_3_Pin_Socket_Outlet_Wiring.jpg ) how likely is it that any fault condition could allow a Line conductor to contact any of any likely metal mounting?

One should be more concerned that there is no regulation in Australia/NZ to require "shutters" on the Line/Neutral terminals of Socket-outlets, as their is in the UK, and is becoming so in North America.
However, it is now required in Australia/NZ that (virtually) all new/amended circuits (including "light" circuits) be "protected" by RCDs, RCBOs etc. Can the same be said for the UK - or North America?

Having written that, "these days" some/many houses with "stud walls" are being constructed with Steel studs and joists - because of
(a) timber shortages and
(b) regulations in "fire prone" areas.

I did not mention earlier these mounting brackets, which can be screwed (or nailed) to a wooden stud. (https://www.electrotraders.com.au/power-point-light-switch-right-angle-stud-bracket )
I do not know if these are being used in "metal framed" housing.
However, I doubt that builders (or first-fix electricians) would take the time and trouble to drill and tap the metal studs (or use self-tapping screws) to mount these, choosing rather to use brackets crimped onto the plaster-board.

It should not surprise you to learn that these screwed/bolted together steel constructions are required to be "Earthed", so that any metal electrical mounting plate which is screwed or connected to them in any way will also be Earthed.

 

[FrodoOne]

The Crapsall range, which was usually broken before it was installed, and if not, it broke while it was being installed.
Can go in the same waste skip as those consumer units with 3 letter brands on them, Kidde smoke alarms and those cheapo 'trade pack' socket outlets where at least 50% broke within a month.

It is "interesting" that some have certain opinions which can conflict with those of others.

I wonder if your comment concerning "Crapsall" is a "reference" to Clipsal, which is one of the oldest and best established electrical company NAMES for quality in Australia - now taken over by Schneider Electric.

"Clipsal" does NOT allow their products to be sold in Australia in the "Big Box" stores.

While you may denigrate products sold under that name in the UK, I prefer to use "domestic" products from that company over most any other available in Australia.
Unfortunately, there are probably only two companies now manufacturing "domestic" electrical accessories in Australia (Clipsal and HPM) - and much of their output may have "components" manufactured elsewhere.

(For "DIN" type products in Australia, Hager might be preferred.)

 

[EFLImpudence]

The real point is that there is no exposed metal object on any Australian/NZ switch plate - as there is on those of the UK, North America and elsewhere.

So what?

It should not surprise you to learn that these screwed/bolted together steel constructions are required to be "Earthed", so that any metal electrical mounting plate which is screwed or connected to them in any way will also be Earthed.

That does not really make sense and would seem to contradict what you have been saying.

The reason for earthing the steel studs cannot simply be "so that any metal electrical mounting plate which is screwed or connected to them in any way will also be Earthed".

Does this practice amuse and disturb you?

 

[FrodoOne]

Since I have intruded here I have created a thread in "Electrics Outside of the UK" - if anyone finds it needful to continue any discussion.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/australian-socket-outlet-history.590446/

 

[Sureitsoff?]

BTW if you are in a similar situation again scholmore do a 4 gang 2 way switch on a "single" sized plate.

just searched and found the switch you referred to. You learn something new everyday, thanks for that I will keep it in mind for future use. ( need a deep back box though)!