Henry motor

[bsr]

Hi

Hoover started labouring. The brushes were worn enough to see a copper wire in the end. I replaced the brushes but the motor still doesn't sound right. I can also see some arcing when the motor runs but I don't know if that was there before.

A couple of commutator segments are more carbon coated than others and you can also see the new brushes have chipped!

Any idea what's going on? Defective brushes? Do I need to clean the commutator? Is it worth it or do I buy a new motor?

Thanks

 

[Burnerman]

If the motor isn’t reaching full speed it’s really game over.....fit a new one, but make sure it’s a genuine item.
This one seems to have done it’s bit!
John

 

[DiyNutJob]

Motor noises are often to do with the bearings the shaft is sitting in. If you remove the brushes and turn the shaft by hand, and the turn isn't smooth, then the bearings need to be replaced.

The arc'ing is probably because of all that black stuff on those what-you-call-it. You can sand them off by wrapping sand paper on it and turn until all shiny copper appear.

Brushes chipping could be low quality, wrong brushes, or worn bearings causing the shaft and everything else to bounce around.

 

[Wayners]

Beko1987 on youtube covers vacuum cleaner repairs

 

[Nozzle]

CLean the commutator back to bright copper, try again

Nozzle

 

[bsr]

Thanks. @DiyNutJob there is no play in the motor and it turns smoothly.

 

[DiyNutJob]

The motor looks aged, there should be some play. How old is it? If the bearings are fine then the noise could be psychological? It's possible the noise could be from a bumpy commutator, which is also killing the brushes. Clean it up first and try again. The ideal situation is to dissemble and take off the motor core (the middle bit). It will be easier to give it a smooth clean that way and also lets you to use you finger to feel the turn on the bearing. Any roughness or the bearing being dry will mean you have to replace it.

To clean, wrap sand pager on commutator, grab it with one hand and turn with the other hand. You don't want uneven sanding. Brake cleaner is good for removing carbon in car. Not sure it will work for this or bad for the coating on the wires.

 

[conny]

Do NOT use brake cleaner! It may possibly damage the enamel coating on the copper wires. Judging by the chips in those carbon brushes I suspect your commutator is damaged, possibly one or two bars have come loose and are lifting as it tries to get up to speed. You can't feel if they are loose but they only have to lift a mill or so and, rather than riding over them, the brush will strike the edge of the comm bar and chip.
Unfortunately the only remedy is a new motor. Can you post a video or series of photo's as you turn the armature slowly by hand? I'd like to see what the rest of the commutator looks like.

 

[mattylad]

Also DO NOT use wire wool to clean the commutator.
Small bits break off and can cause shorts between the sections.

 

[bsr]

Hi @conny I tried to remove the rotor but can't. The bolts holding on the top bearing are some unusual socket. A 6mm doesn't fit and a 7mm spins. I can't imagine it's imperial because it was manufactured 2007.

All the commutator elements look the same except the two pictured here which are scratched. I also spun the motor by hand which feels unbalanced. The unbalanced segment is centred on those damaged commutator elements. I can't see what's unbalanced the motor.

Sounds like it's not worth fixing?

 

[DiyNutJob]

Why not take it to halfords and ask them to give you a socket that fits? All bolt sizes would be standard, whether imperial or otherwise. If your time is more valuable than the cost of a motor then go for one. But, learning stuff means you will not only save money this time, you will also save down the line. Plenty of motors everywhere.

If I was desperate in a hurry, I might even cut small pieces from a tin can to pad the larger socket so that it fits.

 

[Burnerman]

That commutator has taken quite a bit of damage and really needs skimming on a lathe.
When the motor was labouring the sparking there would have been heavy.....new motor time I’m afraid.
You can help the future motor by having the bag filter regularly replaced so the motor gets enough cooling air.
The bolts are imperial (A/F).
I’ve had a few pattern motors in the past, and the quality isn’t high - OE replacements are best and do check the contactors in the lid where the cable is stored at the same time.
John

 

[cwhaley]

Joining as I've just had experience of the same thing. I've been building the extension and the trusty Henry has taken a real battering (mainly due to the amount of dust it's had to suck up). Despite using quality bags and changing the secondary filter, I think it had been laboured too much an this wasn't aided by there being an un-noticed obstruction making it run harder.

I bought a new 1400w motor (cost me about £30) and replaced it with the original. Difference was night and day. There are a few motors to choose from but it was a vacuum repair man who advised me to go for the approved supplier one at 1400w.

 

[conny]

Hi @conny I tried to remove the rotor but can't. The bolts holding on the top bearing are some unusual socket. A 6mm doesn't fit and a 7mm spins. I can't imagine it's imperial because it was manufactured 2007.

All the commutator elements look the same except the two pictured here which are scratched. I also spun the motor by hand which feels unbalanced. The unbalanced segment is centred on those damaged commutator elements. I can't see what's unbalanced the motor.

Sounds like it's not worth fixing?
View attachment 262800

BSR, looking at those two comm segs, and your comment about it feeling unbalanced in that area, makes me think the moulded former that the comm is attached to has broken up underneath. It's quite rare but I have come across it twice during nearly 50 years of working with motors. Small motors like these are only rough balanced and the 'weights' used are usually a lump of epoxy putty pushed down onto the windings. I also suspect the coils connected across those segs have suffered damage, probably shorts between the turns and possible overheating which may have caused high resistance joints at the comm. If you use a multimeter to measure the resistance between each set of segs, (mark 1 of the segs and starting at this point 'walk' your probes round the comm one seg at a time. e.g. 1+2, 2+3, 3+4 etc), you will find the measurement will go up and down by small amounts. Depending where you start they may go up, down and back up when you get back to the start, (or down, up, down), but if a section is the same, or a section goes much higher than the pattern, then it is definitely B.E.R. (beyond economical repair).

 

[bsr]

Thanks all. A new motor is £40. I don't have a lathe. So new motor time. No worth hours of fiddling.

And who the hell uses a 1/4" AF bolt on a motor manufactured in the 21st century? Ridiculous!