Hinkley Point C - C stands for CON

[SirGalahad]

See my previous post. Tidal power output from various locations in real time, shows you are wrong.

It is not comparable to nuclear power as it is intermittent, and suffers from not getting cheaper the more you build.

What is the cheapest form of electricity production currently and potentially in the future? As Hinkley we are tied to paying double the wholesale rate.

 

[JohnD]

give me a time then, so I can check your thinking.

 

[wobs]

Wobs I think you have misunderstood me.

I don't like the way Hinkley has been financed - its down right bordering on corruption. I understood the issues regarding renewables. I am not against Nuclear power but I am sceptical about vanity projects and huge lumbering projects that by the time they are commissioned any benefit is lost or is negligible.

Fair enough. I'm no fan of the way it was financed.
But we need large scale nuclear plants, owing to the nature of our National Grid, and the scale of the issue.

 

[wobs]

What is the cheapest form of electricity production currently and potentially in the future? As Hinkley we are tied to paying double the wholesale rate.

What sort of supply are you asking about?

 

[SirGalahad]

Fair enough. I'm no fan of the way it was financed.
But we need large scale nuclear plants, owing to the nature of our National Grid, and the scale of the issue.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspects/economics-of-nuclear-power.aspx

The report notes that the economics of new nuclear plants are heavily influenced by their capital cost, which accounts for at least 60% of their levelised cost of electricity (LCOE). Interest charges and the construction period are important variables for determining the overall cost of capital. The escalation of nuclear capital costs in some countries, more apparent than real given the paucity of new reactor construction in OECD countries and the introduction of new designs, has peaked in the opinion of the International Energy Agency (IEA). In countries where continuous development programs have been maintained, capital costs have been contained and, in the case of South Korea, even reduced. Over the last 15 years global median construction periods have fallen. Once a nuclear plant has been constructed, the production cost of electricity is low and predictably stable.

In deregulated wholesale electricity markets the economic justification for any capital investment has been decreasing while the actual need increases due to the ageing of existing plants.

So why are we using a flawed way to finance Hinkley. That is the heart of the issue.

 

[wobs]

give me a time then, so I can check your thinking.

Here is the chart from the link:

You'll note the combined dip in output even though they are in very different locations.
From an actual study on the issue.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279783474_Tidal_energy_leasing_and_tidal_phasing

 

[SirGalahad]

What sort of supply are you asking about?

Base supply with the cost of capital factored in.

 

[wv62]

Base supply with the cost of capital factored in.

For base load (taking nukes out of the equation) the cheapest would probably be CCGT. They are (compared to nukes) cheap, quick to build and efficient but we are then totally reliant on other countries for the fuel plus we are still burning fossil fuel.

 

[JohnD]

still no time from wobs

I suppose, as there isn't one, he can't find it.

The document appears to be looking at tidal flow currents, which is not the same as energy into a lagoon through a gated barrage, which can be opened at the most convenient time, which need not be at time of high tidal flow.

 

[wv62]

still no time from wobs

I suppose, as there isn't one, he can't find it.

He's explained it enough times and shown you the charts. It just seems that you either don't want to understand them or are incapable of understanding them

 

[JohnD]

go on then, if you think you can, tell me a time for today, so we can do a worked example.

 

[SirGalahad]

go on then, if you think you can, tell me a time for today, so we can do a worked example.

I think you both agree that renewable sources needs to be increased but disagree as to how effective tidal or renewables are for base loads. Working out examples is missing the wood for the trees.

With improvements in renewable efficiency, battery storage improving we are headed in the right direction.

 

[Doggit]

Please give me a time of day, today, when you think there would be no tidal movement in or out around the coast of GB.

He did. Although the tide is constantly in and out, the speed at whcih it travels slows as it gets near it's change, so for a couple of hours around each change of flow, it wont be producing much. But unlike solar that doesn't work at night, and wind that recuduces in the summer, and needs disconnecting when winds are too high, wave would be the most consitant all year round subject to the flow issues.

 

[JohnD]

A tidal range has two slack times.

Do you mean "slack water" when the tide has risen (or fallen) to the maximum extent, before it starts going the other way?

 

[wobs]

He did. Although the tide is constantly in and out, the speed at whcih it travels slows as it gets near it's change, so for a couple of hours around each change of flow, it wont be producing much. But unlike solar that doesn't work at night, and wind that recuduces in the summer, and needs disconnecting when winds are too high, wave would be the most consitant all year round subject to the flow issues.

And the most expensive.