Hiring a plumber

[MopeyGecko]

Am I likely to get charged extra for labour if I supply parts myself? I would like to get a plumber in to install a central heating system but I'm on a really tight budget. I would like to get a quote for the system including specifications of radiators then attempt to source these myself. There seems to be a few Ebay sellers stocking Stelrad compact radiators at a good price (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-STELRAD-C...ryZ93631QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) which is why I ask.

Would any of you in the trade object to this approach?

 

[tryitandsee]

It's a bit like asking your surgeon to carry out your triple heart bypass operation with some cheap scalpels you happened to get from the car boot sale. Why would the surgeon want to bother when his waiting list is full for the next year and is familiar with his own tools and materials.

 

[Breesey]

... I supply parts myself?

And then they turn up damaged, can't be used and the plumber can't hang about waiting for replacements and you have trouble getting them changed etc etc. This happens. Last week in fact.

You're much better off telling a plumber what your budget is and asking him to help you get best value for money.

And if the rads or something else he orders arrives damaged it gets swapped straight away by the merchant - no time wasted.

 

[scatmanjohn]

I would not mind at all as long as you was aware that if you have any issues with the parts you supply it will be your responsibility to sort it out.

Example: I supply and fit a new rad...it leaks after a week...you ring me...i change it at no extra cost to you.

You supply fleabay radiator...if fit it....it leaks after a week...you ring me...i charge to remove it...you try to get your supplier to change it....i then charge to refit the new one

I would be careful buying them rads off fleabay. Stelrad give a 10 year warranty (i think) on radiators but them ones are seconds.

Ask the seller about warranty

 

[bengasman]

You supply parts, no warranty from plumber.

You supply something that does not fit, plumber will charge you call out, or more when he shows up for nothing.

I really do wonder why people think a supplier will sell them a small quantity for less than a trade customer pays when he buys thousands if not tens of thousands of pounds worth of gear every year.

That could be because:

The supplier does not bother with guarantees, or
The goods are reconditioned, or
Come from a batch that has been dumped because the fault percentage was too high,
Or because they have fallen of the lorry, or
The goods have small defects,or
Eeerhmm, ahh! Because you are so much better at negotiating a price

 

[Malc C]

Best suggestion would be to buy the parts from a reputable local merchant rather than cheap stuff from fleabay. This way you have reduced the problem of getting any replacements should you have a faulty item to a minimum.

The other suggestion is to get a list of parts that your intended plumber is comfortable fitting as his experience of a make or model of radiator / TVR / boiler etc will mean that there is less time wasted if there is a problem. It will also help as you you can always throw the ball back in his court as he told you what to get

The downside is that (as already pointed out) you might not get the parts cheaper than if the plumber supplied them to you, as they will be on a discount structure given their turnover.

I've just thought of another way. Get a quote for the plumber to install the boiler, pump, etc and leave the feed and return pipes ready for you to install the rads and associated pipework. You could then have an understanding that he comes out if there is a problem and will charge if its down to the rads, or fixes it under warranty if its something he installed. The problem is that there is no real dividing line and it would be hard to proove that a fault is not down to something you or he did.

Malcolm

 

[roberta1000]

Get a quote from a couple of recommended plumbers to supply and fit. Ask them for an estimate on hours worked. Work out for yourself what sort of hourly rate they are aiming for including your estimate of the trade material costs. If you like it go ahead. If not get more quotes. If they're anyway decent plumbers the margin on materials will be costed into the job.

 

[Nixt]

Going to have to remember this as so many OP's post the same question over and over again. I will buy some chicken thighs, potatoes, lentils, chick peas and a jar of Madhur Jaffrey's finest and take them next time I go into the Raj. Then I will ask the proprietor how much the labour will cost to cook and serve my ingredients because I'm too tight and useless to realise how life works.

No doubt he will sit down with me and waste many hours discussing my options.

 

[DP]

I would not object to fitting anything OP wishes to supply as long as he pays for time wasted when things do not work out.

What little he would save sourcing components himself would more than be wiped out with extra charges as the householder has little knowledge (often) of what is required resulting in tradesman not being gainfully employed (hence wated time chargeable).

If the householder/ supplier had half a clue of how these parts came together to make a heating system, he would be fitting it himself

 

[MopeyGecko]

Thanks to all who have responded in a constructive way the advice is very much appreciated. The fact is it IS possible to source parts cheaper in a lot of cases and yes I realise that these would not be covered under the plumbers guarantee but surely this is the consumers choice to make.

 

[MopeyGecko]

What little he would save sourcing components himself would more than be wiped out with extra charges as the householder has little knowledge (often) of what is required resulting in tradesman not being gainfully employed (hence wated time chargeable).

This was all I needed to hear thank you.

 

[MopeyGecko]

It's a bit like asking your surgeon to carry out your triple heart bypass operation with some cheap scalpels you happened to get from the car boot sale. Why would the surgeon want to bother when his waiting list is full for the next year and is familiar with his own tools and materials.

I see it as more analagous to a car dealer servicing a car. If I chose to import my car from a European dealer because it was cheaper would the UK dealer then refuse to service it (at a cost)? damn right they wouldn't.

 

[Malc C]

I see it as more analagous to a car dealer servicing a car. If I chose to import my car from a European dealer because it was cheaper would the UK dealer then refuse to service it (at a cost)? damn right they wouldn't.

Possibly 10 or 15 years ago, but these days a lot of manufactures are offering European warranty's as the EU is becoming one state ! - Cars are no longer made for the UK market, the German market etc etc - just the European market - that blows that annalogy out of the water !

I think the issue is that plumbers are pricing themselves out of jobs. I was quoted from just under £2000 to £2500 from three plumbers to remove the old rads and pipework and install 5 new ones and move two others. The price for the parts (quinn rads and all the copper pipe and fittings etc) came to just under £650 when I enquired at a local merchant. Now if we all assume that these guys would be getting a discount from the supplier on parts this would mean the labour would be between £1500 - £2000 for the estimated three days it would take - IMO £500 - £650 per day is a bit steep for a day rate !

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at anyone in particular. It is just a general observation as I work for a company that services industrial catering equipment, and even our senior engineers don't earn that amount per day !

 

[Nixt]

They'll cost your company a lot more than you think as they are paying their NIC, liability insurances, holiday, sick leave, maternity/paternity leave, stress leave, throw a sicky today leave, t*ss it off down the golf course leave, still too p**sed to make Monday morning leave, tea break, fag break, quick (hopelessly out of your depth) chat with the skirt on reception break etc..

Then add cost of everything they use from IT to toilet paper, heat, light, air con, sat nav, private health, pensions etc..

Then even if they don't cut it there is the cost of getting shot HR wages, potential disciplinary process, unfair dissmissal claims, tribunals. And that doesn't even include those with company vehicles.

It seems those ignorant of the above assume the self employed simply take your money straight down the pub and the bookies as they have s*d all else to pay out from it.

 

[wms]

Nice one nixt