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HIVE EXTRA THERMOSTAT INSTALL

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by 98webp, 29 Dec 2019.

  1. 98webp

    98webp

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    Could someone please take a look at my Boiler/Hive set up and let me know what I need to do to install:

    1 x HIVE single channel Receiver

    I have;

    1 x heating valve installed and ready to go (black wire in red box), which will feed my garage conversion consisting of 3 radiators (heating only, hence single channel).
    1 x white cable to connect HIVE receiver.

    Hope the picture does most of the explaining.

    If anyone is kind enough to reply, please assume limited knowledge and basic instructions :)

    Many thanks.
     

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  3. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    wont work you will have to change the 3 port valve for 2 x 2 port valves and have 3 x single channel hives if you want to control the garage seperately from the CH in the house
     
  4. Chris_W

    Chris_W

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    Will they not need x3 2 port valves then? They need hot water as well.

    Edit: just got what you mean, change the 3 port for x2 2 ports and wire in the additional 2 port for garage. (n)
     
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  5. Chris_W

    Chris_W

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    Just out of interest, why wouldn’t this work?
     
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  6. 98webp

    98webp

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    The current active valve has a Hive receiver for the hot water tank and the radiators.

    I need the new hive receiver to open/close the new single valve? The 22mm pipe work connected to the single vale has been added and only goes to the garage. So I was hoping to install a new hive receiver to open/close just that valve and leave the existing system alone.

    I have added a new photo with more details
     

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    Last edited: 29 Dec 2019
  7. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    because the three port can only move to mid position , heat only or HW only, it can not block off both ports so when both circuits are satisfied it switches the boiler and pump off, the extra zone valve when activated will keep the boiler and pump running so will circulate through whichever port is still open on the three port, usually the HW
     
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  8. 98webp

    98webp

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    Ianmcd,

    Many thanks for the information. I had a look online regarding the 3 port valve and unfortunately it appears you are correct. Shame my gas engineer/Plumber wasn't better informed.

    If anyone knows the wire connection for my current set up that would be appreciated. (i'm aware that when the garage is heated it will also heat the hot water in the house).

    Alternatively I will also be speaking with the gas engineer/plumber about installing 3 x 2 port valves. I'm guessing I could use my current two hive receivers (the one that is hot water & heating, would just have the hot water function connected) and then buy another single channel Hive receiver?

    Again many thanks
     
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  9. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    no need for that, if you swap the three port for 2 x 2 ports you can use the existing twin channel hive to control them , then just a single channel hive to control the new zone valve for the garage
     
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  11. 98webp

    98webp

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    Thanks Ian.

    I'll speak with the plumber about adding the 2 x 2 port valves instead of the 3 port and then once sorted will post again for some advice regards the wiring as I already have everything else.

    Only started using this site and appreciate the quick replies and useful information. Massive thumbs up (y)
     
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  12. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    with 3 x 2 port valves it is called an S plan and easily wired
     
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  13. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    here is the positions of the replacement 2 port valves , just have to be on those legs not exactly where I have maked, new zone valve is fine where it is and only 1 new single channel hive to be fitted , existing two channel hive will control the other 2 valves
     

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  14. 98webp

    98webp

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    Should be an easy straight forward swap and will be better to have a proper set up.
     
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  15. ericmark

    ericmark

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    It is not as simple as right or wrong, much depends on how must time each requires to heat to required level, at the moment my central heating is not perfect, the house and flat both have their own pumps and motorised valves and to be independent it would need two relays, but because the flat uses less energy than the house, at the moment I have got away without the relays.

    So simplest method, take the bleed lever on two port valve and latch the valve open, don't bother wiring the valve, and fit eQ-3 electronic heads to every radiator in the garage conversion and set temperatures and times on the TRV heads.

    To increase control use better quality heads, using Hive TRV heads and when they call for heat it will turn on the Hive wall thermostat on which in turn will fire up the boiler.

    Yes goes against the grain not to use the two port valve to control the garage, but in real terms TRV with electronic heads are motorised valves, except unlike the big lump you have fitted it can slowly open or close, so controls temperature in an analogue method, rather than simple on/off, so will give a better control to motorised valve and a lot easier for you to fit.
     
  16. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    Please explain for us simpletons how that works with the existing mid position valve
     
  17. ericmark

    ericmark

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    The mid position valve will fire up the boiler when ever central heating is required by main house, the two port valve comes before the three port valve so if open water will circulate what ever position the three port valve is in, so if latched open the garage heating would also work all summer when just domestic hot water is called for, if, and this is the big if, the TRV heads have opened the TRV on any of the radiators. However one would hope in the summer the TRV's in garage will not be open, so no coolant will flow.

    The other problem is should the garage TRV heads call for heat, unless using Hive heads the boiler will not fire up, likely again this will not matter anyway and likely the Hive wall thermostat will be activated for long enough for the garage to heat up anyway, but if it is considered that may not be the case, then using Hive heads then it will send a "demand for heat" to the Hive wall thermostat and so fire up the boiler.

    In real terms there is no need for the rest position of the three port valve, the three port valve only needs the centre position and fully activated position as in centre position it will not heat any room unless a TRV is open. Because the valve also acts as a relay it is required, but main idea of the three port valve is to allow flow to the DHW using thermo syphon to cool boiler if power fails. With S-plan power cut can over heat some boilers.

    I will agree plumbing is wrong, and also agree if @98webp can get the plumber back and correct plumbing that is the best option, as to why a two port valve has been fitted I can only scratch my head and wonder, with today's electronic TRV heads no reason to have a separate valve for garage and house, it is like in the electric world having a 30 mA RCD feeding a 30 mA RCD, the motorised valve does same job as the TRV which with an electronic head is a motorised valve anyway, it is duplicating the controls.

    If there were no TRV's fitted, then I am sure it could be wired to work as it stands. Normally 5 or 6 wires to a two port valve, depends if the N/C is wired or not on the micro switch, so:-
    Two Port ------ Three Port ------ New Hive
    Blue ----------- Blue ------------- Neutral
    G/Yellow ------ G/Yellow -------- Earth
    Brown -------- Not connected -- No 3 heating on
    Grey ---------- Not connected -- Line supply also needs line supply from same supply as boiler.
    Orange ------- Orange
    White -------- Not used.
    Also a link needed Line to number 1 common on hive.
    The problem is domestic hot water may heat up when the garage central heating runs, and the house central heating is not running, so instead of the link Line to number 1 common if number one common is fed from white on three port valve, then garage heating will only work when house heating running and it would not heat the DHW supply unless required.

    The proper way would be to convert to S Plan, but there are ways as listed to make it work, even if not perfect.
     
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