Hotpoint Oven cutting electrics to entire house

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Hello all, I have a Hotpoint HAG60 Hob/Oven that is roughly from 2016, not sure exactly when but it has generally been looked after quite well. The only issue is that when turning it on at the plug, the electrics in the entire house cut out and I have to turn everything back on at the breaker.

I’ve tried replacing the fuse multiple times with an appropriate new fuse. The plug itself appears to be in good condition, as does the terminal block on the back of the oven.

Would anyone be able to guide me in the right direction? Thank you.
 
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You almost certainly have an Earth Leakage fault somewhere in the house and this is causing the Earth Leakage detector ( RCD ) in the consumer unit to trip.

A picture of the consumer unit would help.

The RCD will have a test button. If that has tripped then it is definitely an Earth Leakage fault where some electricity is leaking from the wiring to the earth. Can be from a damaged element or dampness in the appliance.

Does it trip immediately the switch is turned ON when all the hobs and oven controls are OFF (a) or only when one of more of the controls is already ON when it is turned on at the plug (b)

If (a) then the fault is most likely in the appliance
If (b) then the fault may not be in the appliance but elsewhere in the house
 
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the electrics in the entire house cut out
That seems odd, in the main today a RCD will only cover ½ the house, years ago we did use 100 mA for whole house, and even for a short time had ELCB-v so
A picture of the consumer unit would help.
It could be any thing or simply a built up of multi-faults. There are two testers used, the clamp-on ammeter with 0.001 amp scale, or the insulation tester using 250, 500, or 1000 volt, both are too expensive to be worth the house owner buying their own, so the normal is to try unplugging any items not in use. A line to earth leakage will trip the RCD when the faulty item is used, but a neutral to earth leakage can trip the RCD when any high power item is used, and is harder to isolate.

Seems likely cooker at fault, but not certain, in the main switches or only one line wires, so unplugging removes neutral as well, so try unplugging anything not in use.
 
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Not an electrician, but I was presented with this problem many times.
50% of the times a cable in the oven connection outlet or isolating switch was loose and tightening it fixed the fault.
Have a look but of course, turn electricity off at the consumer unit first.
 
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.... There are two testers used, the clamp-on ammeter with 0.001 amp scale, or the insulation tester using 250, 500, or 1000 volt ...
True, but it sounds as if the device (presumably an RCD) probably trips too quickly when the oven/hob is powered up for the former to be of any use.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Does it also trip the RCD when plugged in, but the switch on the socket is off?

Does it also trip when everything on the oven is turned off, but it is plugged in and turned on at the socket?
 
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Not an electrician, but I was presented with this problem many times.
50% of the times a cable in the oven connection outlet or isolating switch was loose and tightening it fixed the fault.
Have a look but of course, turn electricity off at the consumer unit first.
Actually it does seem many RCD's do trip with spikes. Not what they are designed to do, but noted with mine, resetting one could trip the other, and often could not reset with MCB's turned on, had to turn off MCB's then turn on RCD and then MCB's back on, no reason why this should be required, but it was.

My RCD's were old, likely no electronics in them, likely made around 1990. No type marking on them, fitted before they we supplied as part of the fusebox/consumer unit. Since I never cooked on gas, and all my water heaters used a pilot flame, not a clue how they would work with a spark ignition system?

This is why with new house went for all RCBO's (MCB and RCD combined) I had loss two freezers full of food just before moving due to a RCD tripping, and did not want a repeat of that, when the RCD's were fitted in last house no option, but things have moved on.
 
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Actually it does seem many RCD's do trip with spikes. Not what they are designed to do, but noted with mine, resetting one could trip the other, and often could not reset with MCB's turned on, had to turn off MCB's then turn on RCD and then MCB's back on, no reason why this should be required, but it was.

My RCD's were old, likely no electronics in them, likely made around 1990. No type marking on them, fitted before they we supplied as part of the fusebox/consumer unit. Since I never cooked on gas, and all my water heaters used a pilot flame, not a clue how they would work with a spark ignition system?

This is why with new house went for all RCBO's (MCB and RCD combined) I had loss two freezers full of food just before moving due to a RCD tripping, and did not want a repeat of that, when the RCD's were fitted in last house no option, but things have moved on.
As I said, I'm not an electrician so you surely know a lot more than me.
However, checking that the connections are ok is something that anyone can do and in my personal experience 50% of the times this simple fix sorted the problem.
Worth a punt imo.
 
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Actually it does seem many RCD's do trip with spikes. Not what they are designed to do, but noted with mine .... This is why with new house went for all RCBO's ...
It's a bit of a two-edged sword. If you believe that things like 'spikes' can result in (presumably 'idiosyncratic', not predictable) 'nuisance trips' of residual current devices (RCDs or RCBOs), then it presumably follows that the more such devices you have, the more such 'nuisance trips' you will experience (although admittedly with each trip affecting less things).?

Kind Regards, John
 
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It's a bit of a two-edged sword. If you believe that things like 'spikes' can result in (presumably 'idiosyncratic', not predictable) 'nuisance trips' of residual current devices (RCDs or RCBOs), then it presumably follows that the more such devices you have, the more such 'nuisance trips' you will experience (although admittedly with each trip affecting less things).?

Kind Regards, John
If the RCD has an indicator to say this item is close to tripping X-pole.jpg as with the Eaton X-Pole, then you know when you are sailing close to the wind, and can take action.

We are told 9 mA is the limit to back ground leakage with a 30 mA trip, and the trip can activate anywhere between 15 and 30 mA i.e. 50% to 100% the Eaton X-Pole claims 90% to 100%, but over the years RCD's have moved on, I had considered one of these temprcd.jpg auto resetting units, but latter editions of BS 7671 it seems stopped there use with domestic, and the introduction of type AC, A, F, B and S adds more confusion. Since single module width RCBO's are as far as I know only available as type AC and A, there are likely cases where EV charging or solar panels are used when RCBO's can't be used. The type testing of the consumer unit is only valid if using recommended items in the unit, so we are not permitted to mix and match with domestic.

Also from experience I have found early RCD's could fail due to strain on the housing from the connecting wires, so the unit should be tested after being fitted, but the instructions say it should be tested when no circuits connected, add this to manufacturers instructions that the time to trip is only valid when tested as a type AC, yet we see a selection on the tester for type A, or more, the whole situation is rather unclear.

My RCD tester my son took when his failed, so no longer have one. But I know the two RCD's I had passed the test, and the installation passed the test with the mega, so there was no reason why it should trip to my knowledge. However an insulation tester (mega) uses DC, and the supply is AC, so there can be inductive or capacitive links causing a leakage which the insulation tester would not show, so in theory we should use the clamp-on ammeter, mine starts at 0.1 amp so useless for this test, my son the same, so we could not test the installation for back ground leakage, so easy way out was all RCBO's, it is unlikely a single circuit will exceed 9 mA leakage.

In the main we use the standard installation or minor works form as a check list as to what should be tested, and there is nothing including the EICR form asking for the back ground leakage to be measured or recorded, so many, including myself, don't measure back ground leakage, so an installation can be right on the edge, and a couple of extra mA to imbalance is enough to cause a trip. And a spike or surge can be enough to tip it over the edge.

I was of your thinking when considering what to do in my last house, fit RCBO's or auto resetting RCD, at that time still permitted. But mothers house with two RCD's and 6 RCBO's did not trip ever, and there are some regular posters on this forum who report their RCD never trips, but we can only guess as to why. Or to put is another way, why they do trip in some homes with no apparent fault.

Yes my RCBO's have tripped, one with good reason, the roof was leaking, and socket wet, possible other trip on shower was due to same leak, but I only lost circuits in the flat under the main house, the main house was unaffected, and BS 7671 says "Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to (iii) take account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit such as a lighting circuit (iv) reduce the possibility of unwanted tripping of RCDs due to excessive protective conductor currents produced by equipment in normal operation" and I question how this can be complied with when there are only one or two RCD's fitted, clearly there can be compliance, for example in a caravan where you have battery powered lights.

The problem for the electrician is he has no idea during the design stage what equipment will be normally in operation. We have all seen how the older computers would trip a RCD, together with many items using filters to stop spikes. 3.5 mA is the limit for equipment having a protective conductor current (543.7.1.1) so once more than 15/3.5 = 4 sockets are used, the RCD could trip without fault, OK unlikely, but it does put into question how we can design an installation with more than one socket circuit on the same RCD.

I have seen how a TT installation has had the 100 mA RCD swapped for a 30 mA, and in some cases it does hold, but the big question, does it present a potential danger? I have heard and seen it said we can loose the DNO supply so it is no worse to loosing DNO supply, however if the RCD trips for good cause, it is likely some one could be injured, and to plunge into darkness as well is a potential danger? So should it fail as a code C2 with an EICR?
 
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If the RCD has an indicator to say this item is close to tripping ..... as with the Eaton X-Pole, then you know when you are sailing close to the wind, and can take action.
No doubt - but, since you won't find such a device in a domestic installation, it's a bit moot in relation to discussions in this forum.

Kind Regards, John
 
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There goes another OP, scared away by needless debate interspersed with a post almost as long as War and Peace.

Come back BAS, all is forgiven.

Apologies, but (IMO) there's too much guff and not enough solutions round here at the moment.
 
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There goes another OP, scared away by needless debate interspersed with a post almost as long as War and Peace. .... Come back BAS, all is forgiven. .... Apologies, but (IMO) there's too much guff and not enough solutions round here at the moment.
Much as I am often the culprit (only very slightly in this thread!), I couldn't agree more. I have no problem with ('interesting') tangential discussions which arise after an OP's issue/question has been addressed, but that should not happen earlier.

However, in this particular case, there is certainly no 'solution', and not even much useful advice, that anyone could offer on the basis of what was in the OP - but we received no responses from the OP to the questions posed in post #2 (long before any gaff appeared) which might help us to give a little by way of suggestions/ advice.

Kind Regards, John
 
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