How to heat a house without gas suggestions

[lworbey]

I am intending to move house later this year and was intending to buy a house that needs renovating and has space to extend. I intend to remove any gas supply for various reasons including the gradual move away from gas and the fact that although I cannot generate my own gas, I can generate electricity. This decision has already been made but I am trying to figure out how I could best heat the house using electric and would welcome any suggestions so I can start investigating in advance. I would intend on also having battery storage in the house charged either by solar/wind or taking use of cheaper rates at various times of the day to offset the house usage. I also do realise using electric to heat the house is more expensive (currently) than gas but if generating some electricity and removing the gas standing charge etc entirely would partly offset this.

I would intend on insulating the house well and some rooms particularly bedrooms would only require minimal heating as they would gain heat from downstairs anyway (My current 1950s terrace has the heating turned off in all bedrooms as they stay warm enough from the house heating).

I looked into heating the downstairs using electric underfloor and naturally there are mixed opinions but I think in general it can be expensive to run and is best when used under tiles as opposed to other flooring types so I may consider this for example in the kitchen / dining area depending on flooring.

There is a push towards Air Source Heat Pumps which I am not over keen on as generally I would prefer not to have wet underfloor heating due to raised floor height and if possible removing the need for water pipes to heat every room is just a much cleaner look that I would be very keen on.

I have seen various electric radiators which are thinner than standard radiators which I wouldn't mind but any other suggestions of heating the house using electric would be welcome. I had considered a small separate unit for the bedrooms that could be used for both heat and cooling on warm summer nights etc may be sufficient upstairs.

Any suggestions would be welcomed as I'm sure there are technologies that I haven't heard of or are new that I could look into when planning. Thanks in advance for your time!

 

[pcaouolte]

Electric radiators are cheap to install but will cost about 4 times as much to produce the same heat as gas fired central heating. As you say this extra cost can be reduced to some extent by generating and storing your own electricity. The cost of equipment to generate and store this electricity will be high.

Air source heat pumps are pushed because they can reduce the cost of electric heating to around the same level as gas central heating. You don't have to use underfloor heating with and ASHP (although it is probably the best way to heat a house) you can use (large) wall mounted radiators with the ASHP.

Air to Air heat pumps (air conditioning units which can run in reverse to heat a room) are also efficient but the internal and external units both tend to be bulky and noisy.

I don't think that there is a magic solution to heating with electricity which doesn't involve high initial cost or high running costs.

 

[lworbey]

Thanks for the reply, I've had another read of Air Source Heat Pumps regarding underfloor heating following your comments and like you say they suggest this is more efficient than using rads so perhaps I should reconsider this. If I am renovating and extending then I suppose having all the floors up to lay pipes may be the most sensible for downstairs. If I'm lucky I'll find some kind of grant as they're trying to push the ASHP a lot more at the moment.

 

[Murdochcat]

ASHP's are only a sensible IF the property is a relative new build with up to date insulation standards in floors, walls and lofts adhered too

Electric underfloor heating is a hobby for the rich only

Good luck producing enough electricity to heat a house with solar as in the winter the generation may be below 1 kwh per DAY

 

[lworbey]

I would definitely put a lot of effort into getting the insulation in the house up to as high a standard as possible.

Yeah I'm starting to discover that electric underfloor isn't something to use as a main heating solution.

As for using solar, that wouldn't be the sole source, it would only supplement charging a battery to offset the electricity usage. There are electricity tarifs that can be useful including ones that have electricity cheaper at certain times and then more expensive at others where you can charge up batteries during the cheaper period and sell any excess back during the higher parts to offset your usage. Even just the cheaper night tarif can be handy for topping up batteries, charging electric vehicles etc

 

[JohnD]

I suppose you know that Solar panels produce useful electricity between about 9am and 4pm on sunny summers days when you don't need it

And next to nothing on short, cloudy, winters days when you most need it.

How does the RoI look on your suggested heat pump? And battery?

Or is cost not important to you?

 

[lworbey]

Yes I am aware of the optimum times for solar. The solar during the day would purely top up the battery to mean less is drawn from the grid in the evenings and of course during the winter we'll end up pulling more from the grid due to shorter days etc. It would mean the summers are a lot cheaper but that's the case now anyway with both electric and gas as naturally there's hardly any heating required and only lighting etc later in the evenings.

Cost is not overly important within reason, it all depends on how much of the renovation and extension I can do myself to save money towards these things that I can't really do myself.

 

[JohnD]

You wouldn't mind if, over ten years, the heat pump and the solar both cost more than they saved?

I notice you say you have already decided to have the gas cut off from your hypothetical house.

Interestingly, vendors of alternative energy systems usually prepare their proposals based on an electrically heated house. This is because it so much dramatically more expensive than a gas heated home that it makes the figures look better. You will be aware that most UK electricity is generated by burning gas, but the generation and transmission is so inefficient that the energy delivered costs four times as much.

 

[JP_]

Put loads of insulation in, have big high-quality south facing windows, and keep the gas.
Get wood burners.

 

[Murdochcat]

Put loads of insulation in, have big high-quality south facing windows, and keep the gas.
Get wood burners.

And turn the Roomstat down and wear thicker jumpers

 

[lworbey]

No I wouldn't mind at all, obviously I have to be able to afford it but at the end of the day, doing as much as I can for the environment is most important for me. Firstly that means cutting out burning gas and obviously I can't control how the electricity that I pull from the grid was generated but what I can do is install solar and wind and battery storage to offset that as much as I can.

I fully understand that costs have to be the driver for a lot of people but I'm happy to spend more to do my bit but I will definitely insulate as much as possible too.

 

[Notch7]

No I wouldn't mind at all, obviously I have to be able to afford it but at the end of the day, doing as much as I can for the environment is most important for me. Firstly that means cutting out burning gas and obviously I can't control how the electricity that I pull from the grid was generated but what I can do is install solar and wind and battery storage to offset that as much as I can.

I fully understand that costs have to be the driver for a lot of people but I'm happy to spend more to do my bit but I will definitely insulate as much as possible too.

have you looked at heatgeeks or urban plumber to learn about how to make heating efficient?

whether the heat source is gas or electricity, the most efficient heating is achieved with the lowest flow temperatures and to do that you need large area heat emitters: like large radiators or underfloor heating with a decent floor area. Coupled with that you need continuous low level heating: so underfloor heating with pipes set in nice thick screed and insulation below is perfect, that creates a massive heatsink which is insulated

If you want to make the biggest bang for your buck, you should invest in a thermal camera and then put a lot of effort into removing draughts, air gaps and thermal bridging.

 

[StephenStephen]

Some amateur thoughts:
If you're going to heat with electricity, then a heat pump will be up to 4 times more efficient.
You don't have to have ufh for heat pumps, and it's also, I think, worth looking at air to air heat pumps - much cheaper to install though not eligible for grant funding.
You might also want to keep an eye on whether any landscaping work offers an opportunity for GSHP.
...and have a look here: https://www.speakev.com/forums/power/

 

[StephenStephen]

...and maybe consider seeing if Ripple are offering any new wind, or brownfield solar (I wouldn't recommend their greenfield solar)

 

[JohnD]

No I wouldn't mind at all,

That's great.

You do what you want.

I have the consolation that I used to work in the energy industry, and still have some shares, so a tiny proportion of the money you throw down the drain will end up in my pocket.