Hypothetical Question

[dave.m]

Hypothetical situation.

I’ve done quite a lot of DIY work on my house in the past, including running some extra sockets for things like computers etc.
I now want to put some new lights in the new drop ceiling in the bathroom. Never even heard of this Part P etc and have not been on these forums because I know how to do it, so haven‘t read any threads on here.
So who tells me about this Part P because it is not the sort of thing that is pushed through the letterbox along with the fliers for the local supermarket.
Please don’t suggest that a DIYer should check with his council before doing ANY work on his house, so why should he check for electrical work?

I don’t want to start an argument but if I had not read the posts in the Electrics Forum I would never have heard of Part P and blandly fitted my new lights with no problems. So it boils down to a lack of publicity by the Government or whoever introduced these rules because Joe Public have not heard of them and so blandly carry on doing what they have always done.

dave

 

[Taylortwocities]

But ignorance of the law is no defence.

Suppose you carry your 7-year old child in your car without the proper seat and restraint. Mr Plod stops you. Its no good saying that the government didn't put a leaflet through your door.

Its academic now, cos you do know about it. Now, lots of people don't like Part P, but its there and its statutory.

It has got teeth too now that every property has to have a HIP. And thats where buyers solictors are digging their heels in - "ah, I see you have some recent electrical works done in your house. Please let us have copies of the Part P Completion Certificate and the Certificate of Installation that confirms that the work was tested and carried out to BS7671."

 

[ColJack]

part P is the law.. as is the rest of the building regulations that the homeowner is subject to...

ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it..

it's up to every individual to ascertain whether the activity they are undertaking is governed by any sort of law, and to comply with said law..

did you not get your "the law is changing.. " leaflet through the door when part P was introduced then? I believe that every houshold was delivered one..

 

[Taylortwocities]

Tee hee. Just by a short head

 

[ColJack]

ah but you edited yours, so how do we know what it originally said?

you may have changed your stand after reading mine...

you don't need electrical certs for the HIP do you?

then again part P is a building regs cert...

 

[flameport]

Please don’t suggest that a DIYer should check with his council before doing ANY work on his house, so why should he check for electrical work?

Why not? Plenty of work will require building regulations approval.

Apart from electrical work, there is extending your house, changing the windows, installing or replacing a hot water cylinder, new or altered connections to drains, installing gas or oil appliances, changing the internal layout by adding or removing walls, and plenty more.

 

[Taylortwocities]

ah but you edited yours, so how do we know what it originally said?...

you don't need electrical certs for the HIP do you?

Not as part of the HIP, but buyers solicitors are now asking for information that confirms that recent works have been done and documented properly.
I know, I am doing work for an estate agent who has 3 properties stuck in the selling process because kitchens and bathrooms have been fitted but no notifications done.

Also, have a look at the new Property Information Questionnaire (PIQ) that is now part of the HIP process. It asks about all new works done in the property and also when the last time the wiring was inspected. It also asks for copies of the inspection report.

 

[harrisonline]

This thing about notifying your buildings dudes at the council before hand. This is what happened to me.

I phoned my councils building regs department and told them I wanted to do some notifiable work in my kitchen. They told me they don't need/want to know before hand.

They gave me these following options..

1. Do the work. get an electrician to check it and issue some sort of certificate for it! Fill out a form and send the form, the certificate and a cheque for £60 off to them. And thats it. or

2. Do the work. Get in touch with them and they will get thier electrician to check it and do all the paperwork. The cost is correlated to how much the job would have cost in the first place. So for example if it would cost less that £1000 they would charge £200. If it would cost £2000 they would charge £300 and so on. I can't remember the exact costs now this is just roughly what they said.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Do the work. get an electrician to check it and issue some sort of certificate for it!

And what if you couldn't find one prepared to do that? Or if the Periodic Inspection that he did turned up problems with things unrelated to what you did but which meant you should not have done your bit or your bit was therefore unsafe?

2. Do the work. Get in touch with them and they will get thier electrician to check it and do all the paperwork. The cost is correlated to how much the job would have cost in the first place. So for example if it would cost less that £1000 they would charge £200. If it would cost £2000 they would charge £300 and so on. I can't remember the exact costs now this is just roughly what they said.

Yup - standard sliding scale for any building work.

 

[DeadJoe]

"ah, I see you have some recent electrical works done in your house. Please let us have copies of the Part P Completion Certificate and the Certificate of Installation that confirms that the work was tested and carried out to BS7671."

"I have no idea what you are talking about. It was like that when we moved in. Maybe someone did some work in 2004, before we got here? Otherwise, I have no idea."

 

[electronicsuk]

"ah, I see you have some recent electrical works done in your house. Please let us have copies of the Part P Completion Certificate and the Certificate of Installation that confirms that the work was tested and carried out to BS7671."

"I have no idea what you are talking about. It was like that when we moved in. Maybe someone did some work in 2004, before we got here? Otherwise, I have no idea."

They would only ask that question if you told them that electrical work had been done. Even if it was by the previous owner, you would still probably be expected to pay for a PIR on the property. If you were wanting to go down the deniability route, you'd be better off saying that you're unaware of any recent electrical work at all. Not that I would suggest anyone do that, of course...

 

[DeadJoe]

Exactly. No-one is going to carbon-date your wiring to find out when it was done, and then ask for the certificates. And the wiring colour coding is no proof of anything.

 

[Richard C]

“It wasn’t me guv” is increasingly difficult to get away with & it just isn’t going to work in the future. All that happens is your buyers solicitor will advise their lender of potential unauthorized building works & they will in all probability not advance the cash = no sale! The thing to remember is that they don’t have to prove to you it's unauthorized work; if they suspect, it’s for you to prove to them that it isn’t! & if you tell blatant lies & it can subsequently be proven, there is a strong possibility you could end up in court being sued; it has happened!

 

[chappers]

Whilst ignorance is no excuse in the law, it is true that most members of the public are totally unaware of part P or for that matter most of what is notifiable under building regs.
Take a hypothetical situation Mr Smith has been doing electrical work on his own house for the past 20 years and then on the 1st of April a new law (part P) is introduced, without any publicity how the hell is he supposed to know that he can no longer work on the electrics in his house.
In the eyes of the law he will be guilty but I too think it is disgusting the amount of publicity that has been put out about this.

Take the example of CORGI this was first introduced in the 70's but didn't become compulsory until 1991, the public have only just about got used to CORGI and knowing what it is and then with virtually no advertising they go and change the whole bloody thing to Gas Safe.
Last week my mate went to service a boiler and the old bid asked to see his CORGI card, he tried to explain to her that CORGI no longer existed and that his Gas Safe card was the one she needed to see, she wasn't having it ,she wasn't even having it when he offered for her to phone up gas safe, so he showed her his old CORGI card which had a clear expiration date of 31/3/09 on it and she was as happy as Larry, now where is the sense in any of that, a registration scheme that nobody knows or believes in.

 

[Taylortwocities]

a registration scheme that nobody knows or believes in.

TrustMark, eg.....

If it ain't broke, why try and fix it..