I have a leak from the hot water pipes under the floor.

[bluenun20]

I live in a bungalow with concrete floors and no central heating, I have economy 7.

At the end of December Anglian water notified me that I may have a leak, using 2 to 3 litres
per hours 24 hours a day.
They came out and I turned the stop tap off and no water was going through the meter.
After turning the stop tap back on, none of my taps leak in the kitchen or bathroom,
the loo does not leak and the cistern is not constantly filling up.
The AW guy noticed water dripping from the ballcock in the loft, I held it up while he
looked at the meter and no water was going through the meter.

He said I just need a new ballcock valve. I was not so sure so kept the ballcock tied up
and came back in an hour and the level in the loft tank had dropped. The tank eventually
emptied.
I check the AW website and can see the hourly usage, it is back to normal now with the tank
empty but of course I have had no hot water for the past week.

A plumber came out and we looked but could not see and water. He suggested rather than
digging up the floors cutting and capping the 22mm hot water pipe that goes underground to
feed the bath, basin and kitchen sink and rerouting them above ground, the bath hot would
go through the airing cupboard wall and would be hidden under the bath, the hot basin
could also go under the bath and I could box in the small piece from the bath to the basin.
The kitchen hot could go up in the roof and down into the Kitchen, I could live with the
4 or 5 foot of pipe showing.

What do you think?

 

[potterton678]

How much for all that work?

 

[bluenun20]

I am still waiting for the quote, how much would you say is a reasonable price?

 

[denso13]

He suggested rather than
digging up the floors cutting and capping the 22mm hot water pipe that goes underground to
feed the bath, basin and kitchen sink and rerouting them above ground, the bath hot would
go through the airing cupboard wall and would be hidden under the bath, the hot basin
could also go under the bath and I could box in the small piece from the bath to the basin.
The kitchen hot could go up in the roof and down into the Kitchen, I could live with the
4 or 5 foot of pipe showing.

Sounds like a plan. Maybe cap the pipe first and check that the water level doesn't drop. Just to confirm that is where the leak is.

 

[Agile]

If the leak is from a hot water pipe then a thermal assessment with an IR thermal meter will often indicate where abouts the leak is.

That amount of leakage would also usually cause dampness in the area of the floor.

 

[bluenun20]

I did not hear back from either of the 2 Plumbers that came round and promised me a quote 3 weeks ago, I did text them, 1 replied but still no quote so I did as denso13 suggested and cut the pipe and put a ball valve on the end. The water in the loft tank did not drop overnight.

I rerouted the hot pipe to the bath 2 days ago and the basin yesterday, all seems to be working well.
Now I am able to isolate the hot water after it comes out of the cylinder.
Next I have to get hot water to the kitchen by going up from the airing cupboard into the loft, across and down into the Kitchen.
Should I install an ball valve at the start in the airing cupboard or at the end in the Kitchen near the tap?

 

[denso13]

Should I install an ball valve at the start in the airing cupboard or at the end in the Kitchen near the tap?

Near the tap so it is obvious what it is.

 

[bluenun20]

Near the tap so it is obvious what it is.

Thank-you.

I bought 22mm speedfit layflat for the bath hot water as I had read that it is more flexible than the normal PEX pipe but I found it very
difficult to work with and ended up using ordinary speedfit pipe, pressure is good and no leaks.

For going up into the loft and into the kitchen I was hoping to be able to use 15mm layflat (comes in 25m roll) to reduce the amount of fittings/bends that reduce flow and are potential leak points. In your experience is 15mm layflat easier to work with than the 22mm?

Also looking in the loft I have double thickness loft insulation and cannot see the joists (except where the tank is as it is raised) to fix the pipe to. I assume it is not a good idea to fix the pipe under the insulation out of sight? Should I try to fix the pipe at insulation height and then lag it?

 

[denso13]

In your experience is 15mm layflat easier to work with than the 22mm?

I've never used layflat, normal coils do me fine.

I assume it is not a good idea to fix the pipe under the insulation out of sight?

Below the insulation is fine, keeps them within the heat envelope of the building.

 

[bluenun20]

Thank-you.

I will ask in the shop if I can compare the normal with the layflat.

If the pipe is going below the loft insulation I will drill holes in the joists to pass the pipe through and then clip it along a joist.
I was also going to lag the pipe, is that correct?

 

[denso13]

If the pipe is going below the loft insulation I will drill holes in the joists to pass the pipe through and then clip it along a joist.

On top of the joists will be ok, then lagged with insulation over. Drilling joists, if they are big enough, is a lot of unnecessary work in a loft.

 

[Madrab]

As long as you clip to the top of the joists then normal coils of SF should do. Layflat is simply easier to straighten out as it uses a different type of plastic that is softer so it's easier to manipulate.

 

[bluenun20]

Thank-you both.

Nail in type pipe clips every 30cm?

 

[denso13]

Yes, and ever joist if running across them.

 

[bluenun20]

Thank-you.

When lagging, I was going to use the foam type. Is that the best type to use?

Do they need to be cut down lengthwise to go around the pipe until it hits the joist?