Identify age of this socket?

[JonnyHG]

We are thinking of buying a house, and it looks like it will need a rewire.
It has nice bakelite light switches whose covers are attached by 2 x screws, and which are therefore, I believe, reusable. At this point, I do not know if they are original 1930's or not.

Can anyone give an approximate date to the socket in the attached picture please?

The house has had a recent extension, and will I expect therefore have a new distribution board.

All comments and advice welcome.

Thanks.

 

[winston1]

Around 1970 I guess.

 

[flameport]

At this point, I do not know if they are original 1930's or not.

Definitely not.
That style of socket and plug didn't exist before 1947.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The sockets and switches may well be reuseable, although mechanical devices do wear out from use (or misuse).

The Wiring of the house, as you have mentioned, may well be in need of up dating. As well as the fuseboard or consumer unit.
We cant tell over the Internet. the only way to be sure is to pay an electrician to inspect the installation and provide an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report). That will tell you what must, should and could be upgraded as well as highlighting any dangerous items.

 

[SUNRAY]

We are thinking of buying a house, and it looks like it will need a rewire.
It has nice bakelite light switches whose covers are attached by 2 x screws, and which are therefore, I believe, reusable. At this point, I do not know if they are original 1930's or not.

Can anyone give an approximate date to the socket in the attached picture please?

The house has had a recent extension, and will I expect therefore have a new distribution board.

All comments and advice welcome.

Thanks.View attachment 296323

I think those were available into the 90's and possibly later, certainly used a load in a theatre mid/late 80's and the same style but BS546 unswitched in a church and its hall for 'stage lighting' after 2002 - from Neweys (and another church hall 2019 but I have no idea what the 'old stock' status by the supplier meant).

 

[JohnW2]

I think those were available into the 90's and possibly later ...

I certainly still have a few still in (satisfactory) service in dusty corners of my house.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I certainly still have a few still in (satisfactory) service in dusty corners of my house.

Kind Regards, John

Oh yes, same here and thinking about it the granny annex has a couple of extras added and that was built mid 80's.

 

[Angelchops]

Agree you should probably get the wiring checked. It could be the very old Vulcanised India Rubber stuff, if so it will now be starting to perish and be potentially dangerous. You probably don’t have any RCD protection at the fuse board either. I’d be inclined to get that EICR report too, if the wiring is condemned you could always use it as part of your price negotiation on the house.

 

[Rodders53]

Could possibly be from the 1950s onwards.
MK brand almost certainly.

Museum of Plugs and Sockets: classic BS 1363

Annotated display of classic BS 1363 plugs and sockets

www.plugsocketmuseum.nl

There'll likely be quite a few still in use.

The Logic range was launched by MK in 1971 so one would have expected the older cream white design to be retired not too long after? But if there was demand and stocks to use up, who knows.

<Off topic> Stage Lighting was often 15 Amp round pin sockets (and they were available in similar format from MK) . Certainly Strand Lighting Portable Dimmers in the 70s used them and their 1992 catalogue has them in both 15 A and 16A CEEform socket versions. 13A would have been "unusual" -- especially if any were dimmer outlets and might have been 'used' for other purposes.

 

[plugwash]

AIUI the theatre/events guys don't like BS1363 partly because of the risk of non-technical people plugging something in where they shouldn't (e.g. a dimmer circuit) and partly because it leads to fuses in inaccessible locations.

 

[sparkwright]

Somewhere between 1947 and 1970 I would estimate - having said that, I'm not sure if they did double sockets as long ago as 1947.

Also, not sure the ivory finish was used that long ago.

So perhaps late 50s, all of the 60s...

 

[SUNRAY]

Could possibly be from the 1950s onwards.
MK brand almost certainly.

Museum of Plugs and Sockets: classic BS 1363

Annotated display of classic BS 1363 plugs and sockets

www.plugsocketmuseum.nl

There'll likely be quite a few still in use.

The Logic range was launched by MK in 1971 so one would have expected the older cream white design to be retired not too long after? But if there was demand and stocks to use up, who knows.

Blimey, I didn't start buying those until a couple of years after that, and as I mentioned earlier well into 80's. The vehicle I was driving while doing that job I purchased Dec 1986, year of the heavy snow.

AIUI the theatre/events guys don't like BS1363 partly because of the risk of non-technical people plugging something in where they shouldn't (e.g. a dimmer circuit) and partly because it leads to fuses in inaccessible locations.

<Off topic> Stage Lighting was often 15 Amp round pin sockets (and they were available in similar format from MK) . Certainly Strand Lighting Portable Dimmers in the 70s used them and their 1992 catalogue has them in both 15 A and 16A CEEform socket versions. 13A would have been "unusual" -- especially if any were dimmer outlets and might have been 'used' for other purposes.

Indeed 15A and to a lesser extent 5A BS546 are still very much in use in theatres for exactly those reasons.

Don't forget the dressing rooms; hair driers, curling tongs, phone chargers etc. Office computers etc. Cleaners hoovers. Sound equipment positions. Bar & catering etc.

Lighting dimmer circuits account for a small percentage sockets in theatres, the rest is BS1363.

 

[ericmark]

In the main 1966 is the point where there were large changes, pre 1966 often lights had no earths, and rubber cable was used, although you can get rubber after that date, and even aluminium cables, when Ian Smith was in power in Rhodesia and there was a copper shortage, and there were also batches of cable where the plasticizer leached out, so there are cases after 1966 where re-wire is required, but less likely.

The socket shown was common there the wiring was added latter then when house was built, using surface wiring, the brown bakelite light switches were used in my parents house (1954) but had gone out by time I got first house in the early 70's.

But in the early wiring of post war houses, electricians did not seem to follow the rules as strictly as they do today, my parents house had wall lights in the hall, these should have had earth wires as they were not mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched.

Also the party line telephone should have never been placed under these non earthed metal light fittings, but back then no one seemed to worry about the rules.

 

[winston1]

What rule is /was there about the position of party line telephones?

 

[SUNRAY]

... the brown bakelite light switches were used in my parents house (1954) but had gone out by time I got first house in the early 70's.

Depends what you mean by that. Early 3¼" switches were brown or ivory(cream), white followed. We moved house in 1961 and quite quickly redecorated (it was a council house and painted cream throughout including woodwork), as each room was decorated we replaced the surface mounted switches and 15A sockets with flush white 3¼" accessories.
Surface mount switches (usually brown or white ceramic base with brown bakelite [and white possibly came later?] cover and either threaded central hole or 2 screws) were still freely available and being fitted way into the 70's. As an example in high school I built a stage lights switchboard about 1970 with them and again something on a smaller scale 1973 at 2 of our local council halls.
Mid/late 70's I did a fair amount of house bashing for a developer friend and no question, flush accessories in the house, Surface mounted in the garages on wooden patresses due to the uneven surfaces. I can even now think of a garage where I expect it's still like that.

But in the early wiring of post war houses, electricians did not seem to follow the rules as strictly as they do today, my parents house had wall lights in the hall, these should have had earth wires as they were not mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched.

Ditto and when my sister moved out 1974 she commandered them and they were again fitted without earths and then I had them about 1985 to find there was no earth terminal so added a washer to the screw holding the bracket to the wall.

Also the party line telephone should have never been placed under these non earthed metal light fittings, but back then no one seemed to worry about the rules.

Hmm not sure about the reasoning there, however I've seen a few where the earth was picked from water/gas pipes or electrical earths. We had no choice in high rise blocks until they used cases connexion for the block wiring and added an earth terminal (but even that was sometimes picked from the water main riser etc).