Improving Installation of Salamander Right RSP100?

[rjm2k]

The property I just moved into has a Salamander RIGHT RSP 100 which is rather noisy, I'm wondering if that's down to the installation. I saw a video on youtube of a similar pump and it was near silent, with ours it's in the airing cupboard and you can hear it through most of the house. It's dated 2006 so age may have some impact too. As you can see in the photo it's mounted (not screwed) ontop of a wooden structure which sets its height about half way up the tank. From what I can make of the installation instructions they recommend installing at the same height as the bottom of the tank? Assuming it's the fact that it's mounted on a spindly bit of wood, is it likely that changing this and/or adding a stone slab and rubber mat underneath it will reduce the noise at all? The guy in the youtube video seems to have it on a slab and a yellow rubber mat.
It seems to be fed from a t off the hot out of the top of the tank and a t off the cold inlet to the tank, again I don't think this complies with salamanders installation guides.
TIA

View media item 47350 [/img]

 

[Whitespirit66]

How exactly is the hot supply to pump connected to the cylinder?

Cold supply should really be dedicated 22mm pipe from cold tank.

 

[rjm2k]

Thanks, as shown below the cold is a t off the main cold feed from the loft tank to the cylinder, it's only 15mm off the 28. Not sure why it was done like that, it's not like the tank is a million miles away.

View media item 47351
Below you can see the t off the hot out of the top of the cylinder

View media item 47352
The pump feeds 2 showers.

 

[Whitespirit66]

That's a lash-up.

The way the hot is teed into the pipe, could draw air into the pump, poss explaining your problems. You need either an Essex or Surrey flange.

The cold should have it's own feed from tank. The completely unnecessary PTFE tape on the compression tee joint threads is a dead giveaway that a cowboy/botcher has been at work.

 

[rjm2k]

Thanks, ill look into the hot first and then cold, do you think the position and shelf is unlikely to be contributing?

 

[Whitespirit66]

Thanks, ill look into the hot first and then cold, do you think the position and shelf is unlikely to be contributing?

Probably won't help noise levels being on a shelf. Pump would be best on floor next to cylinder. A rubber mat underneath is a good idea.

Still more likely to be air drawn into pump causing cavitation which will make the pump noisier. Cavitation will also cause early pump failure, and they are quite expensive.

 

[rjm2k]

I've looked at the flange options and it seems that the Salamander S flange appears to be the easiest approved option for fitting, no drilling holes in the side of the tank etc. Is it really much easier for a diyer than fitting an essex flange to the side or am I missing something?

Seems to be a matter of taking the original top connection off (30 years of corrosion permitting) and inserting the new flange, connecting the old HW out to one bit and the pump to the other?

I'm also thinking that the current position halfway up the tank may make it less practical for an essex flange which would be coming out at roughly the same height or possible even slightly below the pump HW inlet.

I noticed that the tank thermostat is set just over 65 degrees but Salamander suggest 60-65 so I guess I should knock it down a little?
Thanks

 

[ChrisR]

Many installations have something non-ideal, it becomes a question of which ones you get away with.
Like if it doesn't suck air, then accept it.

Noise - reduce the movement, and stop it transmitting to the pipes and the fabric of the building.
That means proper flexies in the pipes, but not all so loose they waggle about.
The pump usually comes with good rubber feet, though you can do better (Sorbothane). You have to have the right amount of the right rubber, not too much area.
Then a concrete slab, because it's hard to move about, so it uses up the transmitted energy. A layer of carpet under it will usually stop its movements being heard through the woodwork, or you might use more proper rubber.
The cupboard door works best if it's heavy and a good seal - but you do need some airflow through the cupboard.

 

[rjm2k]

Thanks, how can I tell if its sucking air? The showers don't splutter

 

[Whitespirit66]

Depending on how much air is drawn in you might not notice.

60-65 degrees is about right for cyl thermostat, so you're about right. Try turning it down slightly if you want to.

The s flange would be easier for DIY, but as you say, sometimes the fitting at top can be a mare. Some heat applied to it can sometimes help. However, if it's too tight, and you use too much force, you can tear the soft copper around the fitting. Try seeing if you can loosen the fitting before buying the s flange.

I would try ChrisR's suggestions first, and if this doesn't help then re-pipe the pump.

 

[rjm2k]

though you can do better (Sorbothane).

Any idea where you can buy Sorbothane mats from? I've looked on ebay etc and can really only find either turntable mats or shoe inserts, neither seem suitable.
TIA

 

[Jayluvit]

You might have to change your pipe lay out slighty around where the Surrey Flange has to go because that will be higher.
Also if I am correct as I have done mine this way, when you fit the flange the connection at the side of the flange would be for the pump and the top is for connecting to the hot water taps. Not too sure if you can use either or but that should be in the instructions.
I have photos in my album if you wish to view.
Oh and I used PTFE tape on my compressions to!! I must be a cowboy or just a DIYER!!!
Jase

 

[rjm2k]

You might have to change your pipe lay out slighty around where the Surrey Flange has to go because that will be higher.
Also if I am correct as I have done mine this way, when you fit the flange the connection at the side of the flange would be for the pump and the top is for connecting to the hot water taps. Not too sure if you can use either or but that should be in the instructions.
I have photos in my album if you wish to view.
Oh and I used PTFE tape on my compressions to!! I must be a cowboy or just a DIYER!!!
Jase

Thanks, I'm planning to replace the various different sizes of copper with 22mm plastic as I expect that will reduce noise too, I'll probably take the pump off the shelf and place it on the same platform as the cylinder and plan to use a Salamander S flange (assuming the top nut will come off). At the moment it sounds like an unbalanced washer is running and it echoes lots because the airing cupboard is above the stairs, I may also look at moving the loft tanks to one end rather than in the middle at the moment to make more space useable at the same time but lots of other projects on the list so the GF may have to wait for this one.

The pipework in your cupboard is much tidier but also access is easier, what kind of mat did you use under the slab? and what's the bit of wood holding it against the door?

 

[Jayluvit]

Dont worry about the wood. It was just a stray bit that was on the side of the wall to hold up the shelving. I pulled that all out to work in the airing cupboard.
The pump is on a cut piece of concrete slab which is on a piece of old carpet.
Ive no carpets in my house yet as ive been renovating it (over 3 years now!!!) and I put that in just so that I could get the height of the pump in the right place so I could see where I had to cut the pipes.

 

[rjm2k]

Thanks Ken, found that earlier, I think it's way past its warranty date but the installation guide is handy, I'll be trying to get it closer to recommended when I get chance.

I think the main problem at the moment is that it's basically mounted on a sounding board which amplifies and distributes the noise nicely!

In your experience do the pushfit fittings come off quite easily even when they are old? I assume they are the type that can simply be re-used without having to replace an olive?