Improving on TRV

[Dan Robinson]

Or RTFM.

 

[Aquaheat]

I have never posted on this forum before

Under this user name.

My "style" is of someone who doesn't rely on 'say so' and who likes to work on actual evidence and references

So you think you know better and accept facts and figures spieled by manufacturers rather than in the field experience?

It is a shame that some people on this forum seem more concerned about their sensitivity to implied criticism (there was none intended) than about getting to the bottom of a problem.

You have been offered advice in posts 2/4/5/6/7/17/18/23/25 what more do you want?

I wonder why they bother to use a forum if they don't want to improve their knowledge and understanding of the subject. There have been a few useful bits of information for which I am grateful.

Us real guys learn very little from the open forum which is why we choose to impart our knowledge for free in our down tim to those less fortunate than us.

In the CC we, well I as I can only speak for myself, learn a lot on a daily basis. That's where the grown ups talk. Now sit down, have a bag of crisps and a panda pop and let the grown ups carry on talking.

Jon

 

[sophiecentaur]

let the grown ups carry on talking.

If the "talking" is just statements with no supporting evidence then, apart from a nice bit of social, what does it achieve?

I was advised to talk to the manufacturers and I am in the process of doing that. I am just surprised that guys don't appear to have done the same but rely on each others assertions and speculations. I am sure that remark doesn't apply to the majority of you but I think it does apply to the ones who get riled in the shortest time when their 'authority' is questioned.
Real "grown ups" do not refer to themselves as grown ups because they do not know, on a forum like this, who they are dealing with. Grown ups do not get prickly when there is a difference of opinion or a misunderstanding.

I wonder how many of you guys, who are selling heating systems, have ever taken a thermometer into a client's house and measured the temperatures as part of the service? If it were the normal thing to do then I think the answers to my questions would have appeared here, pretty fast.

 

[D_Hailsham]

On the assumption that it's not just advertising hype, here are some figures from the TRV4 head spec sheet:

Hysteresis Integral sensor 0.4K
Hysteresis Remote sensor 0.6K

Water temperature influence Integral sensor 0.8K
Water temperature influence Remote sensor 0.4K

Differential pressure influence Integral sensor 0.15K
Differential pressure influence Remote sensor 0.10K

Response time Integral sensor 20 minutes
Response time Remote sensor 20 minutes

A TRV heads is only proportional if the differential pressure across it is within the limits set by the manufacturer. If not, it acts as an on-off switch.

TRV heads show numbers, and not temperatures for two reasons:

1. They can then be used in both Centigrade and Fahrenheit situations
2. They are not in laboratory controlled situations, so one room may need setting A to achieve the desired temperature, while another room may require setting B to achieve the same temperature. This is true for both integral and remote sensors.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Thanks for that.
0.4 vs 0.8K temperature influence is very interesting and surprising, if it really does mean what it seems to imply, then the air circulating near the sensor is dominating and that the conductivity of the case is very low.
Differential pressure influence is presumably due to the long length of tubing and the possible flexing with the fluid expansion in the bulb.The 20 minute response time is a bit slow and a wireless system should be a lot quicker than that. That 20 minutes is in addition to whatever the heating or cooling rates in the room might be.
Haha - the number scale instead of a temperature scale argument makes sense. In the light of people's great fussiness for their ideal temperature being within only a couple of degrees, that could explain how 'we' find crude number scales a bit unsatisfactory.
I must say that, in the absence of criticism of the wireless systems, I am attracted to having a wireless thermostat and being able to put it in an ideal spot. We have found a good place for the Hive thermostat in our present setup but that will need to be changed, no doubt.
Many thanks to the people who have made useful comments. Pity about the others (and their customers too.)

 

[AGAS]

 

[shambolic]

Just fit a fecking valve rather than pontificate about it for hours FFS.
It's a £12 valve that won't work anyway as the radiator won't be sized right, furniture will be in front of it, curtains covering it, door to room left open etc etc etc.

 

[Steelmasons]

Thanks for that.
0.4 vs 0.8K temperature influence is very interesting and surprising, if it really does mean what it seems to imply, then the air circulating near the sensor is dominating and that the conductivity of the case is very low.
Differential pressure influence is presumably due to the long length of tubing and the possible flexing with the fluid expansion in the bulb.The 20 minute response time is a bit slow and a wireless system should be a lot quicker than that. That 20 minutes is in addition to whatever the heating or cooling rates in the room might be.
Haha - the number scale instead of a temperature scale argument makes sense. In the light of people's great fussiness for their ideal temperature being within only a couple of degrees, that could explain how 'we' find crude number scales a bit unsatisfactory.
I must say that, in the absence of criticism of the wireless systems, I am attracted to having a wireless thermostat and being able to put it in an ideal spot. We have found a good place for the Hive thermostat in our present setup but that will need to be changed, no doubt.
Many thanks to the people who have made useful comments. Pity about the others (and their customers too.)

What a crock of shyte.....I guess you're in the same mind set of those that use a thermometer for balancing radiators??
Can always weed out the ones that do it for a living and the ones that don't.....

 

[sophiecentaur]

What a crock of shyte.....I guess you're in the same mind set of those that use a thermometer for balancing radiators??
Can always weed out the ones that do it for a living and the ones that don't.....

Elegantly put - as a reason for doing everything by eye and making do with second best.
Just because you don't understand the basics of control systems doesn't mean that the theory doesn't apply in homes, the same as in Motorcars, Power stations and the computer you use on this forum. Your attitude to the subject that your very livelihood depends is quite shocking. And all you can do, when challenged, it to respond with foul language. Not clever. The way we use Energy is going to have to be much smarter and better informed and you can't afford to be a dinosaur for much longer. If you find the topic difficult then the least you could do is to acknowledge it and to recognise that there are some things that can't be worked out without the theory. You are lucky that most of the equipment you instal has been designed reasonably well by people who actually do have a clue and who think the way i do.
If you have never actually measured room temperatures then you have been letting people down - even if they don't realise it. The new generation of smart heating control systems does precisely that every few minutes and you should, at least be aware of the importance of that sort of measurement, rather than being rude about it.
I would say that "you can always weed out" people who are not prepared to learn and could be left behind with the next advance.

 

[Steelmasons]

Hey Soppy , Ive been blessed with two mindsets.....a technical one when I deem it worthwhile...or in your case 'a useless couldn't give a fook one'.....
I've never heard so much useless drivel spouted in all my years..

 

[hazetimesfive]

Yes GW you don't know very much
Forgive him soppy he hasn't been doing this very long.

 

[Steelmasons]

You come on here asking for advice and the next minute think of yourself as some kind of "thermostat guru" ..get a life FFS.....

 

[sophiecentaur]

Hey Soppy , Ive been blessed with two mindsets.....a technical one when I deem it worthwhile...or in your case 'a useless couldn't give a fook one'.....
I've never heard so much useless drivel spouted in all my years..

There's not much point in continuing this but if you reckon that what you 'deem' worthwhile is the only stuff that's worth while learning then you have missed out on an awful lot of seriously important stuff.
Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
And you still can't help being offensive, can you?

 

[hazetimesfive]

Customers like you sit and wonder why no one returns calls or sends the quotations they promised.

We do try and focus on the stuff that really matters, trivial *******s doesn't get a look in, as most customers do not want to pay for useless twoddle.

 

[Steelmasons]

Your postings are offensive , especially so when wasting time reading this drivel whilst i have better things to do as in picking up dog shyte from the garden.