There's a certain irony there , how the elder generation are always haranguing and criticising the younger but are now admitting to being in the wrong.
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There's a certain irony there , how the elder generation are always haranguing and criticising the younger but are now admitting to being in the wrong.
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We seem to have had this topic before and I said in that thread that on the balance I'd opt for out of the undemocratic fascist EU and hope that Westminster have the brains not to sell us out to un democratic fascist US corporations . One thing that causes debate is the question of migration. Germany for instance has taken a large number whereas we in turn along with several Eastern European countries have taken relatively few from the recent migrations despite arguments from the Germans. The recent announcement of taking in children seems to be more a humanitarian stance than a quota one. However, whether we are part of the EU or not those making the migrations will continue , boarders are after all nothing more than arbitrary lines drawn on a map , we will still be faced with a potential hoard of people wanting to enter legally or illegally and potentially have less cooperation with our European cousins. Some even talk of a complete break down of the EU which would only exasperate the problem as each individual country seeks only to look after itself and pass those problems onto their neighbours.
Either way , in or out , I can't see it being a bed of roses.
Either way , in or out , I can't see it being a bed of roses.
You obviously don't read my comments, or if you do you do not assimilate the information, but respond to them anyway.
Yes, but in most cases they were "wrong" only because they had been lied to about the true intent and believed that they were voting to remain in what was merely a trading agreement - The "Common Market" as it was generally called at the time.
If everybody in 1975 knew the true eventual aim, or even could see the extent to which that aim has been partially fulfilled today, I think the result would have been quite different.
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How does remaining in the EU benefit the UK?
The only tangible benefits anyone can ever seem to come up with are (a) things which could be had by a simple agreement with the countries concerned, without the need for the bureaucracy, expense and dictatorship of the EU, and (b) given their relatively trivial nature anyway, certainly not worth all of the many, and sometimes worrying, drawbacks that also come with membership of the EU.
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Ah! So no benefit at all..
I was hoping that Himaginn would like to answer my question since John couldn't and seems to have gone into hiding again
I think I became convinced some years ago that those who support the EU do so simply because they have some ideological belief that it would somehow "be nice" for the whole of Europe to be united as a single nation, which must surely be the eventual aim given the clauses about "ever closer union." And I have a feeling it's because that is their only reason for believing in the EU that they have to resort to witch-hunt tactics when anyone dares to criticize the EU in any way by claiming that anyone who is against the EU and its agenda must be an isolationist, xenophobic "Little Englander."
One for PBC . As the EU dissends into chaos and possibly even total break up could the US be next , another civil war within 25 years? Bit on the pessimistic side but interesting reading....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/03/angry_america_why_an_oilmans_s.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/03/angry_america_why_an_oilmans_s.html
An extra 2 years of contributions is a small price to pay to get out. Who cares if we have no influence during that time? It's not like they take us seriously as it is.
Just how much is two years contributions ? Think what could be achieved with that money staying in this country. In 2013 the UK contributed somewhere around 17.4 billion Euros to the EU budget and received around 6.8billion back in funding. So it's costing us over 10 billion Euros per year. I don't know what the conversion rate is for Eu- £, so I can't put a £ sterling figure on it. but a rough guess I'd estimate 2 yrs contributions to the EU to be somewhere around £30 billion (and if we were giving them 2 yrs notice, I don't think there's any guarantee that we'd get anything back ,,, after all, we're immediately barred from any discussions concerning the EU)
Then look it up. The figure is readily available from numerous sources. Today a Euro is worth 76p.
Why would you want to spin it out to the two-year maximum?
Not true, as has been pointed out to you several times
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But John. Tell us what the benefits of the UK remaining in the EU are..
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That information is worthless. We don't know the exchange rate at the time of exchange or even the date of exchange. Granted it could be researched but why do all that work just to satisfy you?
If Jock thinks that 10bn Euro multiplied by two is £30bn, then he is wildly wrong.
It seems only fair to help him.
10 x 0.76 x 2 is in fact 15.2, so his estimate is about double what it ought to be if his guesses were otherwise correct. I will charitably presume that he has made a mistake due to ignorance, and is not deliberately overstating his case.
It seems only fair to help him.
10 x 0.76 x 2 is in fact 15.2, so his estimate is about double what it ought to be if his guesses were otherwise correct. I will charitably presume that he has made a mistake due to ignorance, and is not deliberately overstating his case.
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