steve131 said:Sounds like a job for a plumber to me..... Thanks anyway
Hot water cylinders are now building regs notifiable, make sure you use someone either APHC or CORGI-plumbing registered so they can self certify the new cylinder.
Installation of vented cylinders - notifiable?
- Thread starter GWP-Stansted
- Start date
Hot water cylinders are now building regs notifiable, make sure you use someone either APHC or CORGI-plumbing registered so they can self certify the new cylinder.
to state the obvious gent's is it by any chance a primatic 
chrishutt said:
And that's why I see so many put in wrong, whether it's sitting straight onto the floor instead of 4x2, the copper to iron being an elodow, instead of a pulled bend 450 off the down service etc etc
Why, because nobody bothers.
It's because of attitudes like yours that guys on my contracts are working on gas without ACS quals. I on the otherhand do bother. Get off my back.
So since when have you been notifying building control every time you install a HW cylinder? And what do they do - come and inspect it? We're getting drowned in unnecessary and ineffectual regulation. Perhaps your attitude of slavish adherence to every word emanating out of Prescott's fundament is the real problem.
Softus, to be honest I've never been sure about these things (but I didn't want to let on to a certain stansted resident), but my understanding is that certain works that are covered by the Building Regulations have to be notified to Building Control, for example unvented cylinders. I think vented cylinders are, in theory, also covered by this, but I'm not sure so I'm going to have to look it up.
Chris, that's fine by me. Since the posting I've also checked the BRs, and my assessment is that there is no specific requirement to notify for vented installation or replacement. As you know I'm fairly pernickity about these things
I understand where you're coming from wrt to GWPS - I don't think he actually does what he's said he does, i.e. "self-certifying" cylinders. Completing the Benchmark certificate for vented cylinders is a sensible and helpful thing to do, but I can't anywhere that mandates it - if GWPS is sending paperwork to the LABC for every vented cylinder renewal then I suspect there's a lot of muffled laughter going on somewhere.
I understand where you're coming from wrt to GWPS - I don't think he actually does what he's said he does, i.e. "self-certifying" cylinders. Completing the Benchmark certificate for vented cylinders is a sensible and helpful thing to do, but I can't anywhere that mandates it - if GWPS is sending paperwork to the LABC for every vented cylinder renewal then I suspect there's a lot of muffled laughter going on somewhere.
GWP-Stansted said:
I know I`m lacking sometimes, but what`s this about..Prestex used to make a copper/iron combined with d/cock elbow....Feed is supposed to be one size bigger aint it? ....should be 28 on most domestic. 
Good job I`m retired I would feel guilty about doing `owt bigger than a tap washer...F`ing beauracracy Yes, softus, I was overreacting to GWP-s and stating things that I wasn't really at all sure of. Not a failing of yours, I'm sure, but us lesser mortals are prone to it. It's just that GWP-s was spouting such a load of nonsense I thought even a few half-truths from me were better than nothing.
I'm with you on this Chris - no criticism [of you] intended by me.
And:
And:
Hi Nige, certainly I've read guidelines about the tee off the outlet joining the service/vent pipe 450mm from the top of the cylinder, but I don't know what GWP is on about here, and it appears that GWP doesn't really know eitherNige F said:
Thanks for the comment, softus, but I do now feel that I've got to get this notification/self-certification business straight in my mind for future reference. Perhaps you can help me.
Firstly, we all "know" that unvented cylinders should be notified to BC, but where in the Building Regulations documents does it actually say this? I can't fing anything in G3. If you happen to know, any chance of a link perhaps..?
Firstly, we all "know" that unvented cylinders should be notified to BC, but where in the Building Regulations documents does it actually say this? I can't fing anything in G3. If you happen to know, any chance of a link perhaps..?
Well, I've been checking up on this (what else should I do on my only day off?). The upshot is that vented cylinders are notifiable and have been for some years (as i said - lucky that one!).
I refer (assumes pompous lawyer manner) to The Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet here.
This explains the requirement to notify Building Control (see section 4) and confirms that this is the case for both unvented and vented cylinders! Not to mention most alterations to internal drainage (waste and soil) and of course all fuel burning appliances.
The only exemption to the requirement to notify Building control applies to certain registered installers who can self-certify within their area of competency. Those of us Corgi registered are thereby covered for gas appliance installations, but not for hot water cylinder installations.
I'd be interested to hear any alternative interpretations of the cited document. Also as anyone actually been notifying their vented cylinder installations to BC? I thought not.
I refer (assumes pompous lawyer manner) to The Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet here.
This explains the requirement to notify Building Control (see section 4) and confirms that this is the case for both unvented and vented cylinders! Not to mention most alterations to internal drainage (waste and soil) and of course all fuel burning appliances.
The only exemption to the requirement to notify Building control applies to certain registered installers who can self-certify within their area of competency. Those of us Corgi registered are thereby covered for gas appliance installations, but not for hot water cylinder installations.
I'd be interested to hear any alternative interpretations of the cited document. Also as anyone actually been notifying their vented cylinder installations to BC? I thought not.
The first thing to get cleared up here is the difference between legislation and guidance. Quoting from the ODPM web site:
[code:1]"The Secretary of State, under the power given in the Building Act 1984, may for any purposes of:
.
(stated purposes omitted for clarity)
.
make regulations with respect to the design and construction of buildings and the provision of services, fittings and equipment in or in connection with buildings.
Copies of the Building Act 1984 and its amending legislation are available from HMSO. The current regulations governing these are the Building Regulations 2000 SI 2000/2531 (as amended).[/code:1]
Note that "as amended" means that there are further Statutory Instruments that amend the Building Regulations 2000; the latest of these contains the ubiquitous Part P addition. You have to read the original SI (2000:2531) and all of the amendments dated 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 to get a complete understanding of the entire regulations.
So, the law is enacted in the Building Regulations (as amended). You can be prosecuted for failing to abide by these.
The ODPM guidance documents are not law. You cannot be prosecuted for failing to abide by these. The Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet (here) is an example of a guidance document, not a statute (aka law).
For unvented installations, installations are notifiable - this is required under the Building Regulations (SI 2000:2531 - this one is the law, remember) as follows:
[code:1]Particulars and plans where a building notice is given
13.
.
(sections 1 through 3 omitted for clarity)
.
(4) Where building work involves the provision of a hot water storage system in relation to which paragraph G3 of Schedule 1 (hot water storage) imposes a requirement, a building notice shall be accompanied by a statement which specifies -
(a) the name, make, model and type of hot water storage system to be installed;
(b) the name of the body, if any, which has approved or certified that the system is capable of performing in a way which satisfies the requirements of paragraph G3 of Schedule 1;
(c) the name of the body, if any, which has issued any current registered operative identity card to the installer or proposed installer of the system.[/code:1]
and:
[code:1]Hot water storage
G3. A hot water storage system that has a hot water storage vessel which does not incorporate a vent pipe to the atmosphere shall be installed by a person competent to do so, and there shall be precautions -
.
(precautions omitted for clarity)
.
[/code:1]
If anyone wants to read the Building Regulations online, and can't find them, there are links on the ODPM web site: here.
This all means that there is no requirement to notify Building Control for vented cylinders, unless it's stated in the Building Regulations, which it isn't.
[code:1]"The Secretary of State, under the power given in the Building Act 1984, may for any purposes of:
.
(stated purposes omitted for clarity)
.
make regulations with respect to the design and construction of buildings and the provision of services, fittings and equipment in or in connection with buildings.
Copies of the Building Act 1984 and its amending legislation are available from HMSO. The current regulations governing these are the Building Regulations 2000 SI 2000/2531 (as amended).[/code:1]
Note that "as amended" means that there are further Statutory Instruments that amend the Building Regulations 2000; the latest of these contains the ubiquitous Part P addition. You have to read the original SI (2000:2531) and all of the amendments dated 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 to get a complete understanding of the entire regulations.
So, the law is enacted in the Building Regulations (as amended). You can be prosecuted for failing to abide by these.
The ODPM guidance documents are not law. You cannot be prosecuted for failing to abide by these. The Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet (here) is an example of a guidance document, not a statute (aka law).
For unvented installations, installations are notifiable - this is required under the Building Regulations (SI 2000:2531 - this one is the law, remember) as follows:
[code:1]Particulars and plans where a building notice is given
13.
.
(sections 1 through 3 omitted for clarity)
.
(4) Where building work involves the provision of a hot water storage system in relation to which paragraph G3 of Schedule 1 (hot water storage) imposes a requirement, a building notice shall be accompanied by a statement which specifies -
(a) the name, make, model and type of hot water storage system to be installed;
(b) the name of the body, if any, which has approved or certified that the system is capable of performing in a way which satisfies the requirements of paragraph G3 of Schedule 1;
(c) the name of the body, if any, which has issued any current registered operative identity card to the installer or proposed installer of the system.[/code:1]
and:
[code:1]Hot water storage
G3. A hot water storage system that has a hot water storage vessel which does not incorporate a vent pipe to the atmosphere shall be installed by a person competent to do so, and there shall be precautions -
.
(precautions omitted for clarity)
.
[/code:1]
If anyone wants to read the Building Regulations online, and can't find them, there are links on the ODPM web site: here.
This all means that there is no requirement to notify Building Control for vented cylinders, unless it's stated in the Building Regulations, which it isn't.
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