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Intergas Eco RF vs HRE

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by Simon-C, 12 Oct 2017.

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  1. Simon-C

    Simon-C

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    Hi, long time lurker first time poster. I'm looking to replace my existing boiler (Glow worm Micron 30FF) and DHW tank with an Intergas combi - the current setup has been giving trouble for some time and I want to relocate the boiler to free up space in the kitchen of my 2 bed bungalow. The boiler would be relocated to the loft.

    My potential Intergas trained installer has quoted for the Compact Combi HRE 28, and suggests that the Eco RF 30 isn't really worth the extra for my needs. Looking at the Intergas website I'm trying to spot the differences - I don't really need the RF module (installer suggested staying with hard-wired controls, and I totally agree). Longer warranty might swing it (10 vs 7 years), anything else I should be considering? Specs otherwise appear identical.

    On the subject of controls, current thermostat is Honeywell CM907, which I've been very happy with. Suggestion is to keep this, rewired to new boiler location on 24V control side. Would I gain much by replacing with an OpenTherm thermostat such as the T4M? I understand the theory, but how much practical difference does it make to efficiency over the TPI control of the CM907?

    Thanks, any input gratefully received.

    Simon
     
  2. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    10 year warranty and rf is the main difference. The engineer can also remote monitor the health of the boiler remotely, but he sounds a bit of a luddite.

    Screenshot_20171012-185453.jpg
     
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  3. dilalio

    dilalio

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    :ROFLMAO:
    Surely he deserves ‘some’ credit for actually being part of the GAS?
    (Gash Appreciation Society)
     
  4. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    True... But... Who wouldn't want remote management? :p
     
    Last edited: 12 Oct 2017
  5. dilalio

    dilalio

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    She would :cautious:
     
  6. muggles

    muggles

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    The difference in cost between the two is less than £30, for which you get an additional 3 years warranty. I know what I'd do
     
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  7. AGAS

    AGAS

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    :)
     
  8. Simon-C

    Simon-C

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    Thanks, I was aware of the remote monitoring possibility and can see the advantages for some installations, although I seem to recall you suggesting in another thread that it wasn't really necessary is the boiler was too reliable to warrant it :p.

    Interesting, he was suggesting the price difference was rather more than that - he's quoted for the HRE. As you say, at £30 it's a bit of a no-brainer.
     
  9. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    Touche. However, the boiler is not the only thing in the equation ;)
     
  10. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Quoting from a Housing Association document,

    The ECO RF should not be confused with off-the-shelf monitors or programmable room thermostats, which control temperatures and times remotely. The technology in the boiler allows you to access the brain of the boiler and examine every operational aspect, make changes remotely, or trigger a service/maintenance visit. There is no other system that can generate audit trails or data that enable actions to be made on concrete facts surrounding performance and usage, or allow up to 240 properties to be linked in one network, via a single internet connection, to provide continuous information transfer.

    The software, embedded in the printed circuit board in the boiler, supplies real time information, in profound detail, to your computer, tablet or mobile phone. This level of information, previously only available by going on site, can trigger action to rectify or ameliorate a situation and it’s all done remotely. This facility is of benefit to all housing associations and providers of social housing where the ‘health’ of hundreds, and sometimes thousands of heating systems needs to be maintained efficiently. It also provides essential support to vulnerable people as this remote management system enables you to be more attentive without being intrusive and make changes from a distance to ensure they are comfortable whatever the weather.

    The function to make changes from a distance can definately be used to help protect vulnerable residents ( tenants of a caring Housing Association ). The question is will it be used in that way. It can also be used ""to protect the assets and interests of the Housing Association"" which has suggestions of Big Brother. .

    No doubt hackers will find a way to hack into the ECO RF network protocols and alter the settings in boilers connected to the local ECO RF networks.

    Does the ECO RF system have benefits ?

    For the maintainance of housing estates operated by Housing Association and Social Housing where tenants may be non-cooperative then there are benefits.

    For the majority of owner occupied properties remote monitoring may be of benefit, remote alteration of boiler operation is unlikely to be of benefit.

    ( Constructive and/or informative critique of my opinion would be appreciated )
     
    Last edited: 13 Oct 2017
  11. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    It's very beneficial for tweaking weather compensation settings based on the actual feedback from the owner rather than educated guesses on retro fits (as opposed to calculated new installations).

    Monitoring system pressure, particularly when the boiler is installed or if the mind's eye) is helpful especially in houses where checking the system pressure and topping up gives the owner the vapours.

    I can't really comment on housing associations as it's not my market but the system has been in use in Holland for many years. The HA system can link 250 odd boilers per hub. The domestic one has a limit of 4, but I've only tested it with 2.
     
  12. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    It does seem strange that Intergas offer a 15 year warranty but then add the rider

    *The 15-year warranty applies to housing associations and local authority installations only.


    Are you implying that if low pressure is detected then the filling loop can be remotely operated to restore pressure or that a technician can be sent to re-pressurise the system.
     
  13. dilalio

    dilalio

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    No Bernie, he’s saying that, instead of relying on ‘flakey’ information and feedback from clueless customers, one can interrogate the system remotely and build a picture of its health status *before* issues arise.
     
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  14. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    That would be a breach of water regulations.

    No, the regular checks on the system will/do allow the installer to prompt the customer into action, whether that be a visit or diy.

    Currently low pressure doesn't cause an automatic notification, like say an overheat or flame failure would, but i have requested that be added.

    Seeing sensor data scrolling in real-time allows remote diagnosis with the customer interacting with the boiler.
     
  15. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    Case in point, customer recently had a hissy fit as the boiler was in the loft, and no heating. Husband works away from home and she refused to go to the loft to see the boiler.

    Problem was......

    Daft bint had knocked the thermostat out of its dock (mains low error message on that), and the system pressure was low.

    Totally separate issues that would have been dealt with in 30 seconds over the phone instead of having to traipse an the way to south west London.
     
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