IP65 & fire rated downlight allowing easy bulb replaceme

[Andy.T]

Hi there,

Our current bathroom downlight fittings are really fiddly when it comes to replacing bulbs. I think they are the cheap, B&Q type. You have to go up in the loft, ferret about in the insulation and the fittings always seem to become slightly dislodged. It's made all the harder by the fact they are right in the edge of the roofspace. Anyway...

Does anyone have any experience of a fitting that can be left as is (with insulation over the top) and where you can gain access to replace the bulb by unscrewing something in the bathroom side.

These here look like they might do the job, there's a good diagram of them here. How do they look?

Any problems with this as an approach or any better options I should look at?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Andy

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How do they look?

They don't look as if they are necessarily going to be OK to use in a bathroom ceiling without a sealed enclosure behind them.

Remember that the IP rating only applies to the access to the electrical components. As a (ridiculously) extreme example to illustrate the point, I could make and sell¹ a light like this:

which requires a 1m diameter hole to be cut in the ceiling. It would be IP65, but it would still create a path through the ceiling for warm moist air to get into the loft.

Ditto "fire-rated" (which you probably don't need anyway). All that means is that if there is a fire in the room below then when the gases and smoke going through the light reach a certain temperature, intumescent components do their thing and block the passage of smoke and hot gases through the light. But until that happens there's no guarantee that it will be blocking anything. It also does not mean that the light housing runs cool, or that you can just pile insulation over the top of it.

And the problem with air from the bathroom getting into the loft is that it will cause condensation, and that will eventually lead to the roof timbers rotting. New roofs are expensive.

• http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCPublicati...ical/StandardsExtra/filedownload,16553,en.pdf
  
  
• Pre-formed cap to seal downlights: http://www.aico.co.uk/Downlights-in-Loft-Space-What-to-fit.html (It's NOT a firehood....)
  
  
• IET article on installing downlighters safely

¹ "offer for sale" would be more accurate - I doubt I would actually sell any...

 

[Taylortwocities]

I would recommend that you change your lights for
THESE LED DOWNLIGHTS.

The bulbs don't blow, so you wont need to do any of that crawling around. Warranty for 5 years, IP65 rated, suitable for bathrooms, use a TENTH of the electricity that your halogen fittings use
PLUS
you can get a wee cap that goes on it, so you can throw your insulation over the top.

What's not to like?

Meerkat

• Taylortwocities
• 11 Dec 2009
• 53

Simples!

 

[Andy.T]

Thanks both.

We have Megaman 11w CFL GU10s in there currently. They do take a minute or so to warm up but other than that we're pretty happy with the quality and quantity of light. It's just the fittings that are a bit of a pain, probably exacerbated a little by the size of the Megaman bulbs.

To be clear, we've not needed to actually replace a bulb as yet, but we find dust (and the odd fly in summer!) seem to find there way into the current light fittings. And it's obviously a bit of a pain to try and clean them out, as you have to take the bulbs out to do so.

It just seems odd (to my admittedly very clueless brain) that most enclosures are not sealed at all above the lamp and require you to gain access at the top if you need to change the bulb. I'd have thought someone would come up with an assembly that formed a good seal to the ceiling, had a cover above it on the roof side, didn't get too hot and had a glass bottom cover that could be unscrewed or clipped, allowing bulb replacement from the bottom?

Maybe I just need those cap things you mentioned Taylor? And put up with the faff when I do eventually do need to change the bulbs?

 

[winston1]

Are you sure you have to change the lamps (not bulbs) from above? Never come across this. What would happen if there was no access from above, eg in a flat or with a flat roof?

 

[Andy.T]

Hiya yep, I'm pretty sure. I've uploaded a bad picture here if it helps.

There doesn't seem to be a way to remove the glass to get at the lamp (not bulb, sorry!) and the main metal surround is held in place by the clips the other side of the ceiling. Unclipping those even from above seems to go poorly as they then don't seem to want to clip back in place and end up slightly loose.

I'm not sure, but the Megaman lamps look so big that even if one did get access to them from below (through the glass) they'd possibly be too snug to get through the holes.

 

[Andy.T]

So, if I go the cap route (assuming there's no better designed downlight fitting that doesn't need one), what's the best sort to go for?

A large one that sits between the joists like this?

They don't seem to allow access at the top though? Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Here's your picture so all can see it.
View media item 84231You must be able to get at the lamp from below as mentioned above.
There is always a way. Its just that you don't know how to do it, yet.
Pull one oput of the ceiling, is the easiest way. Post a picture.
Follow the HOW TO POST A PHOTO INSTRUCTIONS

The caps I mentioned in my post above are specific to the Aurora M10 and dont work anywhere else. each manufacturer will state what clearance is required for their luminaires.

The loft brace is a good solution, but you dont get access from above (I repeat, you should no need it!)

There are other solutions like the
LOFT CAP

 

[Andy.T]

Thanks Taylor, you're probably right and it's just muppet error on my part. I'll have another look tonight.

 

[Andy.T]

Ahh ok yep, kinda muppetry on my part. I found the original manual (they are B&Q "Kerry" fittings apparently). Very similar to these. I hadn't realised that one is supposed to pull the whole of the chrome surround down.

View media item 84449
That said, pulling it down (and the clip thingies through the ceiling) seems to not do the plaster any favours. And pushing it back up doesn't seem to entirely lock the clips back in place.

We're having some works done around the house soon including lighting, would it be worth replacing these fittings for something of better quality?