Is it worth moving pipework to fit mag filter on return?

[redhexagonal]

I have a combi boiler that has no mag filter and the heat exchanger is getting full of crap from the system, which is costing me money (about £130) to get cleaned every year. I had a couple of plumbers round, one said he could fit mag filter for £300, which I assume would be on the flow, since the return pipe is tucked up in the corner and is not accessible to fit a filter. Another plumber quoted me about £850 to remove the boiler off the wall, and move the pipework so a filter can be put on the return (plus a new flue and flush). I'm not sure if its worth spending that much to get the filter on the return ("optimal" according to magnaclean) rather than the flow ("acceptable" according to magnaclean, but not my plumber!) ? Thoughts?

 

[cross thread]

Certainly don’t need to remove the boiler off the wall to get it on the return, but some piping will need rearranging.
easy to fit on the flow and it will collect some dirt .

 

[Fred Blogs]

I fitted my magna clean on the flow, which is acceptable according to magna clean instructions, because I couldn't get it on the return. Obviously the return is better because it gets the crap before it hits the boiler but mine picks up a lot of rubbish where it is on my old CH system so thats all good as far as I am concerned. I give it a clean every few months or so, mainly when I remember.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It looks do-able to fit it on the return, with a bit of effort, but I would ask why you are needing to have it cleaned every year at all? Are they not adding inhibitor and cleaning it? Are they not cleaning it adequately?

 

[redhexagonal]

[]

 

[redhexagonal]

It looks do-able to fit it on the return, with a bit of effort, but I would ask why you are needing to have it cleaned every year at all? Are they not adding inhibitor and cleaning it? Are they not cleaning it adequately?

There is inhibitor in the system. i’m not sure what you mean by cleaning it, but the CH has been drained down within the last year. The heat exchangehas been getting clogged with black gunk which makes the temperature of the hot water fluctuate which is not great if you're having a shower.

2 plumbers have told me its not possible to fit a filter on the return (top right in the pic) without alot of moving of pipework

 

[Madrab]

If you are having to clean your system to the tune of £130 every year then in my opinion there is something not right. If the system is setup correctly, isn't leaking or needing bled regularly and is inhibited properly then it shouldn't really need that kind of cleaning every year and strictly speaking CH system shouldn't even need a filter.

Yes a MAG filter is always recommended these days and they do serve a purpose but I have a modern sealed system and it has never had a mag filter fitted and it's still squeaky clean. I also look after a number of older F&E systems (one still running a Kingfisher 2) that have never had a filter fitted and are still in great condition.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes a MAG filter is always recommended these days and they do serve a purpose but I have a modern sealed system and it has never had a mag filter fitted and it's still squeaky clean. I also look after a number of older F&E systems (one still running a Kingfisher 2) that have never had a filter fitted and are still in great condition.

I have an open-vented system, which was installed 40 years ago. It has never needed cleaning, the contents always clear when checked. I took the precaution of having a filter added, when the last boiler was installed, but it has hardly collected anything when checked.

Look after the system and it will look after you.

 

[redhexagonal]

There is inhibitor in the system. i’m not sure what you mean by cleaning it, but the CH has been drained down within the last year. The heat exchangehas been getting clogged with black gunk which makes the temperature of the hot water fluctuate which is not great if you're having a shower.

2 plumbers have told me its not possible to fit a filter on the return (top right in the pic)

If you are having to clean your system to the tune of £130 every year then in my opinion there is something not right. If the system is setup correctly, isn't leaking or needing bled regularly and is inhibited properly then it shouldn't really need that kind of cleaning every year and strictly speaking CH system shouldn't even need a filter.

Yes a MAG filter is always recommended these days and they do serve a purpose but I have a modern sealed system and it has never had a mag filter fitted and it's still squeaky clean. I also look after a number of older F&E systems (one still running a Kingfisher 2) that have never had a filter fitted and are still in great condition.

I’m wondering if part of the problem is the underfloor heating which was reinstalled a couple of years ago - there has been some build up of bacterial sludge in the past although I put biocide in recently. The sludge in the heat exchange definitely looked black though…

 

[Madrab]

bacteria - underfloor heating

Another reason why - with a mixed rad/stored HW/UFH system - it's always a good idea to raise the system temp up to at least 60Deg once a week.

 

[redhexagonal]

Another reason why - with a mixed rad/stored HW/UFH system - it's always a good idea to raise the system temp up to at least 60Deg once a week.

Do you mean the underfloor pipes? My boiler is already set to 65 or 70 . If I raise the temperature of the UFH using the mixer valve, the floor will get too hot for the LVT flooring which is supposed to stay 27c or below.

 

[Madrab]

No ... raising the system temp over 60deg would normally kill most of the bacteria that may be in the system that can cause build up. Due to the slow flow rates and lower temps (~40deg) of a system that is only UFH, then bacteria can become an issue as it multiplies. If the rest of the system is raised over 60Deg at least once a week then that should minimise any bacteria growth and kill any that may be present in the system water. Usual bacteria found in these system are usually destroyed @ >50Deg

Has anyone performed test for bacteria? Water smelling bad/stagnant?

If not then there may be other issues that are causing the system to need cleaned every year.

 

[redhexagonal]

No ... raising the system temp over 60deg would normally kill most of the bacteria that may be in the system that can cause build up. Due to the slow flow rates and lower temps (~40deg) of a system that is only UFH, then bacteria can become an issue as it multiplies. If the rest of the system is raised over 60Deg at least once a week then that should minimise any bacteria growth and kill any that may be present in the system water. Usual bacteria found in these system are usually destroyed @ >50Deg

Has anyone performed test for bacteria? Water smelling bad/stagnant?

If not then there may be other issues that are causing the system to need cleaned every year.

Thinking about it, I havent really used the radiators much at all the last year or 2, due to renovations, so i’ve mainly used the UFH. So yeah, the system water will have been relatively cool alot of the time , or at least not circulating the rads much. Maybe thats why bacteria built up. But Ive added biocide now. I’m wondering whether its worth getting a spirotech MB3 to remove any bacterial gunk or whether a flush and biocide would make a Magnaclean pro2 sufficient

 

[Madrab]

spirotech MB3 - so i’ve mainly used the UFH

They're a very good filter but so are the Adey's, the Fernox/Sentinel filters are also very good and most are proficient at removing magnetite (or iron oxides) particles, when it comes to non ferrous particulates (bacterial) then I can't say that any stand out when it comes to filtering. That's when I would opt to perform a system flush and then preventative maintenance/management to stop it re-occurring.

Even if you've only been using the UFH, if you system is set to 60-70deg then it should still be warming the system water up to that point, therefore it should still be hot enough to kill any bacteria. You may need to sterilise the UFH circuits using x700 and then flush a number of times and then re-dose with anti bac and inhibitor.