Is this a supporting wall?

[SkipFeeney]

Hi,

Just bought a house with a tiny tiny almost pointless hallway. I would like to knock the wall down to remove the hallway but I was surprised to find breeze blocks behind the plasterboard when i cut a small hole. Can anyone advise if they think this is a supporting wall?

Wall to be removed circled in red:

Wall2

• SkipFeeney
• 28 Sep 2017

Photos:

Wall3

• SkipFeeney
• 28 Sep 2017

Wall3

Wall1

• SkipFeeney
• 28 Sep 2017

Thanks

 

[Doggit]

It shouldn't be, but the joists will be going from left to right, and as long as none of them are resting on that wall, then you should be fine. Also, there should be a double joist at the start of the stairs, that will then support a stringer going along the side od the stairs, that then supports the joists going from the stairs to the opposite wall. I hope you can get my drift.

 

[SkipFeeney]

Ok, so lift floor up from upstairs and ensure no joists are resting on the wall? Why would they use breeze blocks on that wall?

 

[Doggit]

Yes to the first point, and no idea to the second; but that's why you need to check, in case they've been lazy, and used short joists wherever possible.

 

[THughes]

You also need to check that the wall between bedroom 3 and 1 and subsequently the ceiling in the bedrooms or your roof isn't supported by the hall wall you intend to remove.

Its possible that this hall wall adds sufficient bearing to the joists to resist this bedroom wall load whether that is breeze block or just studwork.

You really need to look both under your upstairs floorboards and up in the loft to determine the load path. Simply looking under the floorboards isnt sufficient by any means.

Calculations may be required depending on what you find. However if you post pictures the need for calcs can be determined relatively easy.

 

[bernardgreen]

There may be a rule ( building regulations ) about a toilet not being directly accessable from a living room.

Personally I would find it embarrasing for a guest to be using the toilet when other guests in the living room could hear what was happening in the loo.

Maybe the reason the wall is breeze block and not lightwieght studding is to "soundproof" the lounge from the toilet.

 

[SkipFeeney]

Ok, had a builder round and lifted up the floor. The joists were resting on the wall, the joists span all the way to the other side though - they are not cut near the wall.

The builder believes the length of the joists is just under the limit to run without support and thinks it will be fine, not sure what everyone else thinks?

Also the wall for bedrooms 3 and 1 is not above the wall, its about 150mm before the wall

 

[Doggit]

Okay, so the rooms small, but as Bernard suggests, the toilets there, so will you worry about that, or is it worth going for broke, and taking out the toilet as well. Are you worrid about coming into the room straight from the outside, and how will you feel in the winter with a gale blowing into the room. How will you feel about talking to people in the street, with the living room on view behind you.

The builder says that the joists are just under the limit, yet says "and thinks it will be fine", rather than "but thinks it will be fine", so at the end of the day, it's got to be your choice.

 

[SkipFeeney]

All good points, however I am great believer that hallways are a waste of space - you might use them a couple of times a day, all other times they are unused. The cold air going into the room is a valid point but we use the back door more as that is where the parking space is. Happy with the toilet as is, if anyone is fussy they can go upstairs - got two kids so need a downstairs loo!

 

[^woody^]

Two of the worst house layouts are

Stairs in front room
Front door in front room

You have one, think carefully about creating the other.

If the joists are continuous between the two side walls and one piece then they are not bearing on that hall wall.

 

[Blagard]

It is more of a lobby than a hall and I agree with Woody. Additionally, that lobby is something you may well miss come winter if you decide to remove the wall and in any event the extra lounge space will be unuseable as it is still a circulation area for people coming and going. It has a similar function to a porch. Exposing the WC door to the main lving area is something that I think would have a negative impact on the house layout. You are of course stuckc with the downstairs WC as they are a requirement under the building regulations these days.

 

[tony1851]

There may be a rule ( building regulations ) about a toilet not being directly accessable from a living room.

Personally I would find it embarrasing for a guest to be using the toilet when other guests in the living room could hear what was happening in the loo.

Maybe the reason the wall is breeze block and not lightwieght studding is to "soundproof" the lounge from the toilet.

To be honest Bernard, IIRC, there isn't a prohibition on having the wc accessible from the living room as long as there is a washbasin in the same room.
In fact, it would probably be ok to plumb a wc IN the lounge - say somewhere between the tv and the sofa, which would make life easier instead of going upstairs and downstairs to use the toilet.
I must admit, though, its a while since I read the relevant Approved Doc.
.

 

[pilsbury]

Not commenting on the structural aspect, but in my opinion, that hall, although small, is a perfect place for people to come in with wet shoes, take them off and then walk into the living room. Going straight from outside in wet weather into your nicely carpeted living room would send me potty. Then the thought of the misses dropping a 2 pounder whilst I'm watching TV would be enough to tip me over the edge.

 

[Ian H]

Get rid of both. Put the toilet under the stairs and build a porch.