Is this 'additional' planning condition charge fair?

[Watshot]

Planning approved a small extension and loft conversion in our bungalow which is well under way (as a long DIY project). I decided that to preserve headroom and bring a 46 year old roof up to modern spec, I would 'warm roof' the insulation. Building control are happy to do this as an 'on site minor amendment' or whatever the term is, basically no big deal. Of course this raises the ridge height a few inches which, being in a conservation area, requires planning permission. No problem, rules is rules.

We have just been granted planning permission, great, subject to one condition: 'That samples of the tiles to be used in the covering of the roof of the extension shall be submitted to and approved in writing' etc, etc.

That may sound straightforward, however I have two issues. One, details of tiles are clearly stated on both the original extension application and the subsequent application for the 'warm roof'. This forms part of the application which has been approved and paid for. If I deviated from this then I would not be surprised if I then found myself in trouble with planning. Secondly, on ringing the planning department, I was told that it's not their fault, it's the government, and although there was no mention of it in the paperwork, a further £25 fee is payable to approve this condition!

Surely I am being charged extra for something that is clearly part of both previous 'granted' applications, and had I not applied for the warm roof, the extension was going ahead anyway with no mention of approving tiles. Is this not a retrospective charge that has little to do with the current application to which it has been attached?

For the sake of clarity we are talking about ordinary brown concrete tiles, still commonly available from any merchant. We are re-using as many as possible from the existing roof, and where new are needed they will be on the back out of sight, eventually weathering to match the existing.

It's not a question of 25 quid and it's done and dusted. The council have already had nearly £1300 from us, it seems like they can just make it up as they see fit, and blame it on the government. Question is, am I being fleeced or just having a bad day!!

Thanks chaps.

 

[noseall]

You are being fleeced....,...legally.

 

[^woody^]

That is a standard thing on most approval documents.

Technically a condition must be met for the approval to be valid, particularly if a contentious or a brand-new one-off development where there will be an issue with materials. Work in conservation areas does attract this type of condition

In reality, no-one bothers with this type of condition unless there will be issues with material choice.

If you are using similar tiles to other properties locally (or the same as existing), then there is no reason for the council not to approve these, and therefore if you just went ahead without getting these tiles approved, then no action would be taken by the council

 

[AndrewSchofield]

Watshot, what the planning authority have told you is correct, it isn't their legislation its government legislation so they aren't just making things up. I presume local authorities aren't making money so the government are starting to charge for services that were previously free. A lot of councils around us are now also starting to charge for pre-application advice which, in my opinion, makes it worthless bothering with pre-app advice.

As woody says, as long as you make sure you stick to the approved drawings and details then you should be ok with this and most people wouldn't bother getting it 'discharged' in writing. However, one thing to look out for are conditions which must be approved (discharged) BEFORE any works start on site. An LA near us are clamping down on these so-called Condition Precedents and if you start without discharging the condition there is no way to discharge it at a later date (if you end up needing to?) and they are forcing people to re-apply for planning permission to rectify the non-compliance.

One other thing to note. If you do decide to 'do it by the book' and get it discharged, make sure you apply to disharge all the conditions which need discharging in one go. If, for instance, you've got four conditions that need discharging you can do them all in one go and pay one fee. If you do them all seperately you'll need four discharge applications and you'll have to pay four lots of £25!!

Did they tell you that it can take 8-12 weeks for them to issue a decision to discharge the condition??

 

[Watshot]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately it's a 'prior to commencement' condition, and the nice lady said they should be able to get it turned around 'fairly quickly'.

A more transparent stealth tax I have not seen. Ignore the warm roof application and I can carry on and finish the extension for nothing under the existing application. Apply it and they make 25 quid for something they are already well aware of and able to enforce if I, for some reason, decided to mismatch the tiles. I suppose gardening 'expenses' don't grow on trees...

I guess I'll have to do the British thing and go in and have a rant, then drop my pants, bend over, and take it.....on the chin....

Many thanks chaps, see you soon when something else hits the fan.

 

[AndrewSchofield]

the nice lady said they should be able to get it turned around 'fairly quickly'.

Let me know how you go on. I applied to discharge a condition back in September and on talking to the planning officer she told me she'd deal with it as soon as possible - well within the statutory 8 weeks. Its now over 4 weeks on and i've still heard nothing!

 

[spongobongo]

The alternative is to appeal against the condition on the grounds that it fails the test of reasonableness and necessity. An appeal is free and, if you choose the 'written representations' procedure, won't take much longer than eight weeks to reach a decision.

The Planning Inspectorate have started a fast track procedure for appeals by householders. You ought to take advantage of this, and then let us all know how you get on.

If you need any pointers on how to write an appeal statement, PM me.

 

[^woody^]

Don't forget the time limits for an appeal

Also a condition to agree roof tiles would be reasonable within a conservation area

 

[Watshot]

Also a condition to agree roof tiles would be reasonable within a conservation area

The application was to raise the roof to allow for insulation and clearly states that the original tiles will be re-used, and any new required i.e for breakages, would be 'like for like'.

The extension is on-going from a previously approved application with no conditions attached. Again the tiles were detailed in this application. This condition appears to be retrospective, hence the complaint.

Of course they have pitched it just right, 25 quid and it disappears, appeal and I could be delayed for weeks (and still have to pay).

I think I will call them on Monday and express my concerns, gauge the response before deciding what to do. After all, it may be government policy, but that doesn't make it morally right, as we have learned from M.P's recent shannanagins.

Thanks all, I will report back.

 

[Watshot]

Ok, apparently if I write and explain my 'concerns' they will look into it, and, if they agree, they will write back allowing me to continue.

However, this will not discharge the condition, and I have been advised that should I come to sell the property this may flag up. Unbelievable.

So, like I said, they've pitched it just right, looks like the sensible thing to do is pay it, with a little moan in my letter to make me feel better.

Andrew, I'll let you know how long it takes.

 

[^woody^]

and I have been advised that should I come to sell the property this may flag up.

Very, very, very unlikley.

And even if so, of little consequence unless you use the most garish, out of place tiles which you can find

 

[Watshot]

You're not going to believe this but common sense has broken out in council towers!

I wrote a letter expressing my displeasure at their unnecessary condition and charge, and they have agreed and officially discharged the condition without any further payment.

I am now free to carry on doing exactly what I was doing before, which is what I and the council wanted all along