Is this allowed?

[BoyElectric]

I am replacing an old open vented central heating system with a condensing boiler. British Gas quoted about £4500 (yeah right) to do the job and a local CORGI plumber about £3,500 - both included replacing the gravity fed mixer shower with one suitable for pumped/mains pressure.

I worked for a plumber when I was a bit younger and have done masses of DIY plumbing since then. I know I can get the whole job done for about £2200 if I do most of the work myself and then get a CORGI plumber in to commission the boiler - basically connect all the pipes to the boiler, set up the boiler, fill the system, test it and certify the installation.

This is the work I plan (and am able) to do before I call the plumber in:

Hang the boiler on the wall
Install the flue through the roof
Install the electrical supply (but not connect to the boiler)
Install the Wireless controller (but not connect to the boiler)
Drain the system
Remove old water tanks and pipes
Powerflush the CH system
Run all the pipes (Mains water, CH flow/return HW output) within about a metre of the new boiler and label them ready for the plumber to connect to the new boiler
Install new shower

In order to route the CH flow/return pipes to the boiler also need to shut down and remove the old boiler.

My question is . . . am I doing anything illegal here? Everything I am doing is in accordance with regulations and manufacturers guidelines with regard to siting the boiler and flue and the rating of the electrical supply. My father is a chartered electrical engineer and he has inspected and verified the electrical work I have done.

Thanks.

 

[ChrisR]

See the faq section.
The things you can't do are red:


Disconnect the old boiler gas supply

Hang the boiler on the wall
Install the flue through the roof
Install the electrical supply (but not connect to the boiler)
Install the Wireless controller (but not connect to the boiler)
Drain the system
Remove old water tanks and pipes
Powerflush the CH system
Run all the pipes (Mains water, CH flow/return HW output) within about a metre of the new boiler and label them ready for the plumber to connect to the new boiler
Install new shower

Assuming you're qualified, you can also do all the electrics.

I'd want to put the inhibitor in.

 

[BoyElectric]

Thanks Chris - I will check the FAQs.

I assume the inhibitor is a magnaclean or similar? I have bought a magnaclean for the plumber to fit.

I understand the reasons for not disconnecting the gas supply from the old boiler but I am ASTOUNDED that you need to be CORGI registered to hang a metal box on the wall and cut a hole in my own roof! Would you call out a C&G qualified joiner to hang a shelf on your bedroom wall?

 

[ChrisR]

No an inhibiitor is a liquid !


You can cut the hole in the roof, as long as it's in the right place.
If the boiler fell off the wall, the corgi man would be liable. hence wot I rote.
It's all partly bullox of course.
In practice, it depends on the guy you get and how fussy he is. I reckon if I can hang on the boiler and it doesn't move, and the fitter doesn't go pale, it's ok.

 

[BoyElectric]

Ah yes, inhibitor I wont be refilling the CH system after the powerflush so I will leave the plumber to put the inhibitor in.

I've already hung the boiler (I can hang on it and it doesn't move!) and put the flue in (in the right place) and installed the condensate waste (in full accordance with the regulations) so I'm guess I'm going to have to find a not too fussy plumber!

edit: It should only take the plumber about 10mins to remove the flue and take the boiler off the wall to check the installation and about the same to put it back if he/she has any doubts. I've only routed and dry-fitted the condensate waste pipe as well, so this can be removed in seconds.

I'll get this not too fussy plumber in to disconnect the gas supply from the old boiler and cap it off, so I can remove the old boiler and re-route the CH flow/return pipes, then get him back to commission the new boiler.

Thanks for your help - know any not too fussy plumbers?

 

[gas4you]

The problem you may get and this is general, not aimed at you personally, is that RGI's may feel a customer who is doing all this work is a bit of a 'tight s*d' and cause them more hassle than it's worth if they take on this type of job.

I would think that you would still be looking at at least a days labour from the RGI.

Good luck

 

[Goldspoon]

I would suggest paying the Corgi guy "very well indeed" so there is a win/win situation and he/she doesn't feel they are being taken advantage of.

 

[HarrogateGas]

I have no problem at all in registering boilers others install. I charge a fixed fee of £1 Million + VAT. As yet ive had no takers. Im not a fussy plumber. If intrested please get in touch.

 

[BoyElectric]

I had estimated that it would be around 1 days labour. I will pay the RGI whatever they are asking for the work . . . but within a reasonable limit.

If a CORGI guy feels they are being taken advantage of for being paid correctly for the work they ACTUALLY do, then it speaks volumes about the breed. A lifetime of poor-quality-minimum-work-for-maximum-money jobs by "professional" tradespeople I have employed has brought me to a situation where I have taught myself through reading and hands on experience. I now only call tradespeople for work that I am unable or not legally allowed to do - which isn't much.

It's not about being a tight s*d - it's about not paying someone else premium rates for poor quality work where in most cases I can do it just as well or better. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what this site is all about

Appreciate the comments though guys. I'm sure there are many quality tradespeople out there - I just can't find them.

 

[BoyElectric]

I have no problem at all in registering boilers others install. I charge a fixed fee of £1 Million + VAT. As yet ive had no takers. Im not a fussy plumber. If intrested please get in touch.

Thanks for the quote Harrogate - I've had 3 now and you are 2nd lowest. I am always suspicious of the lowest anyway so that makes you the front-runner for the work. I'll be in touch . . .

 

[ChrisR]

I've done it several times. With sensible people there isn't a problem.
I get well paid for 2 or 3 visits (there has to be one up front) and I don't get involved with the boring stuff - or these days, paying someone else to do boring stuff.
No I don't do Avon !

Most of the better boilers have wall mounting frames - all the pipework can be done but the mountings etc are perfectly visible.
S'funny there's no Corgi/ACS element (yet) for "fixing things on walls"

 

[BoyElectric]

S'funny there's no Corgi/ACS element (yet) for "fixing things on walls"

Which makes me no less qualified to hang the boiler on the wall than yous and equally as capable of following the manufacturers instructions.

It seems to me the real sticking point in this situation is cash not safety.

You'll have to excuse me now as the inspector from FORSH (Federation of Registered Shelf Hangers) has just arrived to certify the safety of the wall-mounted ornament stands in the property

 

[WDIK]

S'funny there's no Corgi/ACS element (yet) for "fixing things on walls"

Which makes me no less qualified to hang the boiler on the wall than yous and equally as capable of following the manufacturers instructions.

no you misunderstand, the frame is ok to hang and make pipes to, the boiler hangs on the frame and thats the bit you cant do.

 

[ChrisR]

S'funny there's no Corgi/ACS element (yet) for "fixing things on walls"

Which makes me no less qualified to hang the boiler on the wall than yous and equally as capable of following the manufacturers instructions.

It seems to me the real sticking point in this situation is cash not safety.

That isn't quite right, or fair. The point is RESPONSIBILITY. If it were to fall off the wall, break a gas pipe and kill someone, the corgi would go to jail and not the householder who put the screws in.
Quite often, old boilers had horrendously complicated fixing arrangements by today's standards. I've often found the quickest way is to lift from the bottom and pull hard. The screws usually pull out of the wall, if there isn't one at the bottom. (The last one brought the wall with it so it wasn't such a timesaver ).
If a customer did that to a boiler I'd fitted, I daresay he could sue me.

it's surprising how many diy'ers can't get good fixings on walls.

 

[BoyElectric]

Fortunately for me, I'm one of those DIY'ers who finds it difficult to get a BAD fixing in a wall. But that's not the issue here is it.

My new boiler (Vaillant 837) has a steel heavy-duty wall-mounting bracket and the boiler hangs on the bracket. The bracket is fixed with 3" 10mm hex screws and I've drilled the holes into the blockwork not the mortar course. I would need a spare afternoon with a crowbar to try and pull it off the wall. Again, that's not the issue here.

What you're saying to me is, it's OK for me to screw the bracket to the wall, but not hang the boiler on it. This brings me back to my shelf analogy - I can put up the shelf but I need the bloke from the Federation of Registered Shelf Hangers to stand the vase on it for me.

Seems to me, if I spend the 5-10 minutes it will take me to remove the flue and drop the boiler back to the floor just before the RGI gets here, he/she shouldn't have any issues with the install.

I wonder how much the RGI will charge me for lifting the boiler back on to the bracket? It's fairly heavy and fairly high up on the wall (within the specified clearances) and I couldn't get it up there on my own. I hope he doesn't ask me for any help lifting it back up there

If it's not about money, can any of you RGIs tell me why having had 3 private quotes for the entire job, not one of them could supply me the boiler I wanted within £100 of the price it cost me to walk into the NEAREST heating suppliers, buy it off the shelf and have it delivered to my door? BG wanted almost £1600 for a Worcester Bosch unit that costs only £750 without the BG badge on it! But the less said about BG, the better. If professional trades stopped trying to take the piste out of me, I'd stop being such a tight s*d.

I take your point about responsibility Chris - the law is the law. But you've got to admit, in many respects, the law is a small rear-facing waste pipe.

I love this site [/i]