Is this earth wire a problem?

[Wilseus]

I just noticed this issue with my (otherwise good) new build house.

The end of the wire is bonded to the gas pipe, as I would expect, but it surely can't be right that it sticks out of the bottom, and disappears into the mortar like that?

What's to stop someone just snipping that with wire cutters? The location is visible and easily accessible from the street.

Can anyone comment and tell me whether the developer should fix this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It would be perfectly acceptable if the wire ran along clipped to the outside of the wall to wherever it goes.


What is to stop someone taking an axe to the box and meter?

 

[Wilseus]

It would be perfectly acceptable if the wire ran along clipped to the outside of the wall to wherever it goes.

So are you saying this ISN'T acceptable then? I have no idea there the other end goes, whether it's connected to an earthing rod, or a terminal inside the consumer unit...

What is to stop someone taking an axe to the box and meter?

Nothing, but I would know pretty quickly when my heating and hot water stopped working. But if someone snipped that wire I would have no earth and I would potentially not know for a long time, right?

 

[CBW]

tell me whether the developer should fix this?.

Yes, they should fix it. It’s a new build, so absolutely no reason why it can’t be done to correct standards. Gas/British standard regulations state that the box should not be pieced or drilled to allow the cpc/PEB. It goes onto state that the integrity of the box must not be compromised, which yours has.

They have also kinked it, but that might not affect the safety of it. The bit about someone snipping the wire is a bit of a stretch, I haven’t been called to all these existing properties where this has happened.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So are you saying this ISN'T acceptable then? I have no idea there the other end goes, whether it's connected to an earthing rod, or a terminal inside the consumer unit...

No, I am saying this is quite normal:

 

[Wilseus]

Thanks both of you. I will mention to them the hole that's been made in the box and see what they say. The builders are still on the site, further down the road, so I will mention it to the site manager before I take it up with head office.

 

[sparkwright]

Yes, they should fix it. It’s a new build, so absolutely no reason why it can’t be done to correct standards. Gas/British standard regulations state that the box should not be pieced or drilled to allow the cpc/PEB. It goes onto state that the integrity of the box must not be compromised, which yours has.

They have also kinked it, but that might not affect the safety of it. The bit about someone snipping the wire is a bit of a stretch, I haven’t been called to all these existing properties where this has happened.

Some useful links there.

What have they kinked?

There are many older gas kiosks where there are gaps at the bottom and one can easily push their bonding cable through this.

Out of interest, who is responsible for passing the bonding cable through a modern gas kiosk where the integrity must not be compromised?

Is there supposed to be a bonding cable already hanging about somewhere BEFORE the kiosk is fitted on new builds???

It seems to me very often the new gas box is already fitted and sealed before anyone has even been asked to provide the bonding cable.

Also, it seems electrical regs don't demand the gas must be bonded at the kiosk, you can do it where the pipe enters the building - yet I was led to believe gas regs only want it at the kiosk.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The 'kiosk' and meter could be a long way from the 'point of entry into the premises' of the pipe which is where the electrical regulations state the pipe should be bonded - where practicable - meaning it might not be at the point of entry but somewhere other than that inside.

This 'point of entry' can also be outside, but not miles away along a pipe, so it would seem unreasonable for the gas regulations to state anything other than that.


In the OP's picture where the wire exits the kiosk, is there not already a hole, or at least a knockout, in that position

ready for an exit pipe as shown in the picture I posted.

 

[CBW]

What have they kinked?

I have added an edited photo to show this.

There are many older gas kiosks where there are gaps at the bottom and one can easily push their bonding cable through this. Yes, not a problem

Out of interest, who is responsible for passing the bonding cable through a modern gas kiosk where the integrity must not be compromised? In my opinion, anyone who is deemed competent

Is there supposed to be a bonding cable already hanging about somewhere BEFORE the kiosk is fitted on new builds??? No, wouldn’t think so, but easily done as a retro fit. Mine (which is only 12 years old), the pipe exits the meter box, through the wall and enters the garage. It is within 600mm, as required.

It seems to me very often the new gas box is already fitted and sealed before anyone has even been asked to provide the bonding cable. Possibly, I’ve not worked on new builds

Also, it seems electrical regs don't demand the gas must be bonded at the kiosk, you can do it where the pipe enters the building - yet I was led to believe gas regs only want it at the kiosk. Doesn’t have to be in the meter box/kiosk. Within 600mm before any branch. Daft thing is, there’s a yellow sticker, which iirc mentions the bonding.

 

[CBW]

@sparkwright, some more links, if of any use?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't suppose - on a new-build house - it has a plastic supply pipe by any chance.

 

[JohnW2]

@sparkwright, some more links, if of any use?

That's all fair enough, but ...

(a)... there is never a requirement (per BS7671) for anything outside of the building to be bonded, and

(b)... if the meter is above ground and supplied by a plastic pipe and/or if there is no electrical continuity between input and output pipes of the mere, then there is no requirement (per BS7671) for any of the gas pipework to be bonded - because (per your first image) pipework entering the property is then not an extraneous-c-p.

If, in the absence of a BS7671 requirement for bonding), the gas regulations are concerned about the theoretical risk to, say, meter readers if they touch the house's pipework (whilst standing on 'true earth') at the very time when the installations pipework is at a high potential relative to true earth (due to a very rare supply network fault), then that's a different matter - but it's not really anything to do with BS7671, and is not mentioned in any of the material you have posted - and, indeed, not really something that anyone can do anything about (unless some 'insulating section' is inserted into the pipe which enters the property)..

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

I have added an edited photo to show this.

It does look like a kink - but it could just be shown at a funny angle, if it's just a bit of a double bend.

Another picture may confirm if it is a nasty kink.

Also in the picture we can see the remains of an earth clamp - from the op's reasonable knowledge I would assume there is an intact earth clamp on the pipework.

 

[EFLImpudence]

We've done all this many times.

"544.1.2 The main protective bonding connection to any extraneous-conductive-part such as gas, water or
other metallic pipework or service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that part into the premises."

That's all you need really.

"Where there is a meter, isolation point or union, the connection shall be made to the consumer’s hard metal
pipework and before any branch pipework."

That means where there is a meter inside the premises.
It is not correct electrically but that is what it says.

"Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union
or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external."

The 600mm. only applies to internal meters.
It is not correct electrically but that is what it says.

 

[sparkwright]

"Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600 mm of the meter outlet union
or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external."

Surely this could be interpreted/misinterpreted as
600 mm of the meter outlet union if the meter is external
or
at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external

Have you added the heavy type?