Kitchen not a 'special location'?

[James_H]

From reading plenty of posts on here and seeing material elsewhere, as far as I am aware, my kitchen is not a special location for Part P purposes.

I'm not having a bath, shower, sauna or swimming pool fitted in there.

However, the NIC domestic installer I had in for a estimate yesterday insisted that it was a special location and the radiator and sink would require supplementary equipotential bonding, run back to to the main bonding point next to the meter.

Surely he is just confused by paragrpah 2 of the notification requirements as listed in Ban's Part P reference thread:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27936

Just because kitchens and special locations both have to be notified does not mean the requirements are the same? From reading other posts, I was under the impression that bonding the kitchen sink is in fact not considered good practice anymore.

 

[Adam_151]

Its special location in part p terms (to do with notifying), but not in the eyes of the iee (which deals with when you need to bond)

Thus you do not need to bond, the reason being that kitchens are rarely filled with wet, naked people.

as for part p, its a special location in terms of that, because there is money to be made there, giving jobs that kitchen fitters would do to electrical firms, and getting kitchen fitters signed up as domestic installers

 

[Qedelec]

Thus you do not need to bond, the reason being that kitchens are rarely filled with wet, naked people.

You should see my kitchen when I throw a party

something to do with the roe hip doll we use...

 

[Adam_151]

Apparently, if you invite ban, he will bring a bottle, a roll of 4mm² green/yellow and some bonding clamps...

 

[Paul Barker]

But if your boiler is in the kitchen it's pipes have to be bonded, the 4mm green/yellow cable can be taken to the cpc in the fcu for the boiler or back to the main earth block.

Thank two Jags for making kitchen a special location for aproved document P.

 

[Spark123]

But if your boiler is in the kitchen it's pipes have to be bonded, the 4mm green/yellow cable can be taken to the cpc in the fcu for the boiler or back to the main earth block.

Main eq bond to boiler/central heating needs to go to MET, not fcu. Cable size depends on supply type i.e. TN-S, PME etc.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Apparently, if you invite ban, he will bring a bottle, a roll of 4mm² green/yellow and some bonding clamps...

And a megger - mustn't forget that...

 

[Jonny7]

And a megger - musn't forget that...

Reminds me of my first few days as an apprentice in a shipyard....

"here son, hold onto this lead with that hand and the other lead with your other hand while I check your resistance.... I'm just going to turn this little handle"

Then came the busbar tester.....

"hold that test probe against the yellow phase and the other one against the neutral.. and what ever you do, don't break the connection.... OK? right, I'm off to lunch (to the sound of uncontrolable laughter!)"

And yes, I did go to the stores for a spirit level bubble. I was young then

 

[Paul Barker]

Not it doesn't have to go to met it can go to fcu but should preferably go to met.

 

[Spark123]

Metal central heating system is on the list: Regulation 413-02-02 BS7671:2001, wether or not you decide to main bond at the boiler or elsewhere on the system is open to interpretation.

To see an ongoing discussion on this subject, see iee

 

[kevplumb]

Not it doesn't have to go to met it can go to fcu but should preferably go to met.

that dont sound right fuse in the earth

 

[securespark]

the reason being that kitchens are rarely filled with wet, naked people.

Speak for yourself, mate!!

But if your boiler is in the kitchen it's pipes have to be bonded, the 4mm green/yellow cable can be taken to the cpc in the fcu for the boiler or back to the main earth block.

Not according to the IEE, if the pipework is effectively isolated by plastic pipe.

Should not take supplementary back to MET.

 

[James_H]

A belated thanks for this - it confirms that bonding in my kitchen is not needed (no boiler in there).

Its a special location in part p terms (to do with notifying), but not in the eyes of the iee (which deals with when you need to bond)

Being picky, I don't completely agree with this, which was the reason for the post heading. A kitchen is notifiable, but it's not a 'Special Location' under either Part P or the wiring regs.

The electrician (in theory a proper one, not just a kitchen fitter with domestic installer status) appears to have mistakenly thought Special Locations and notifiable locations are the same.

 

[chrislangham]

Folks,
All extraneous metalwork needs to be bonded to the main earthing point .
The statement about bonding sinks is not true, as if the sink is metal then it must be bonded! Especially is it simultaneously accessible to other metalwork.

A kitchen may not be a "special" location, but it certainly is less safe as far as electricity is concerned (sinks, taps, water, wet hands etc) so increased protection should be applied in that location.

It would be wise to:

1.Make all sockets RCD protected as supplementary protection to direct contact.
2. Bond all exposed and extraneous metalwork
3. Consider the use of cord operated switches and higher IP rated toggle switches.

Part P is here to stay, the objection to it is now pointless. We all must and should comply, indeed, nothing has changed, as we always had to comply to whichever version of BS7671 didn't we?

Chris (Part P Registered)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Folks,
All extraneous metalwork needs to be bonded to the main earthing point .

If you mean extraneous-conductive-parts in the Zones of a special location then no, this is not true - there is no requirement to take the supplementary bonding back to the MET. And main equipotential bonding only applies at the incoming service points, i.e. where extraneous-conductive-parts first make their appearance. There are no requirements for any bonding of extraneous-conductive-parts in other locations, let alone one of taking the bonding back to the MET.

The statement about bonding sinks is not true, as if the sink is metal then it must be bonded!

No, it mustn't. If you think it must, please quote the regulation.

It would be wise to:

1.Make all sockets RCD protected as supplementary protection to direct contact.

Wouldn't hurt.

2. Bond all exposed and extraneous metalwork

I'm not entirely convinced that you really understand what those terms mean.
And I'm certainly not convinced that applying s-e-b in a kitchen won't make things less safe, not more

3. Consider the use of cord operated switches and higher IP rated toggle switches.

OTT.

we always had to comply to whichever version of BS7671 didn't we?

We didn't and we still don't.