Laws requiring keyholders and registration

[JohnD]

Does anyone know a part of the UK where householders with an alarm are obliged by law to set up keyholders and to register with police or council?

I saw a claim that "...Key holders are required for all systems... Also to be on a register at the local council...So if you`re not doing this your breaking local regulations" However I know this to be untrue, because in the areas I have checked, there is no requirement on a housholder and some areas do not even have a register, so "All" is certainly untrue.

However I would be interested to see evidence (not just an assertion) if there is some part of the UK where a householder who, for example, buys or builds his own bells-only system is under a legal obligation to tell anyone.

 

[yaleguy3]

I don't know of anywhere.
I have even gone to silence alarms I have installed and the local enviromental team on the site made no mention of any legal requirements.
There is nothing locally other than a 'reccommedation' but this relates only to advice that suggests you could be liable for costs should the alarm have to be silenced but makes no stipulation that keyholders MUST be recorded with the local authority.

The keyholder plan sounds like a good idea but in reality people move homes and even if they live within 20 minutes of a property cannot guarantee to be within 20 minutes of the property in any case.

The lists soon become out of date and keyholders cannot always be contacted so the requirement is only advisory.

If someone asked you to be a keyholder on condition that you never strayed more than 20 minutes away from their home , would you do it. Would you say goodbye to trips to the pub - seeing your mates- watching the footie , days out or shopping with the wife just so you could fulfil an obligation to a neighbour?
Would the council make it illegal to fit an alarm if you could not get two keyholders to commit to your system? Would they actually say you could not fit an alarm?

For commercial properties keyholders are essential because people go home at night - however in those cases you use professional keyholder companies who have staff available 24/7.

You have been forced to post this topic simply because someone does not want to backtrack and lose face.

The requirement is in the code of practice that the alarm companies adhere to when fitting grade 2. It's something that they have to do probably for their nacoss registration.

 

[S21]

"Section 69 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 allows the Council to declare alarm notification areas, where it is an offence not to notify us if you have an alarm fitted."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/contents



HTH




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[yaleguy3]

It allows the councils to make that decision but everywhere I work they haven't.

69Designation of alarm notification areas(1)A local authority MAY designate all or any part of its area as an alarm notification area.
(2)If a local authority proposes to designate an area as an alarm notification area it must arrange for notice of the proposal to be published in a newspaper circulating in the area.
(3)The notice must state—
(a)that representations may be made to the authority about the proposal;
(b)that any such representations must be made before a specified date.
(4)The specified date must be at least 28 days after the date on which the notice is published in accordance with subsection (2).
(5)The local authority must consider any representations about the proposal which it receives before the specified date.
(6)If a local authority decides to designate an area as an alarm notification area it must—
(a)arrange for notice of the decision to be published in a newspaper circulating in the area, and
(b)send a copy of the notice to the address of all premises in the area.
(7)The notice must specify the date on which the designation is to have effect.
(8)The date specified must be at least 28 days after the date on which the notice is published in accordance with subsection (6)(a).
(9)If a local authority decides not to designate an area as an alarm notification area it must arrange for notice of the decision to be published in a newspaper circulating in the area.

 

[S21]

It allows the councils to make that decision but everywhere I work they haven't.

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sorry, where did I say they had?




I was answering the OP`s question.




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[JohnD]

"Section 69 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 allows the Council to declare alarm notification areas, where it is an offence not to notify us if you have an alarm fitted."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/contents

Thanks very much, S21. So councils are allowed to require it. But do you know if there is some part of the UK where a householder who, for example, buys or builds his own bells-only system actually is under a legal obligation to tell anyone?

 

[S21]

"Section 69 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 allows the Council to declare alarm notification areas, where it is an offence not to notify us if you have an alarm fitted."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/16/contents

Thanks very much. So councils are allowed to require it. But do you know if there is some part of the UK where a householder who, for example, buys or builds his own bells-only system is under a legal obligation to tell anyone?

North East Derbyshire has several designated areas.





HTH

 

[JohnD]

That's interesting, thank you.

edit:

curses, I had a look at their website and all I can find is a form which says "...it is advisable that the alarm holder should..."

I suppose there must, somewhere, be a reference to a bylaw or enforcable regulation, but I'm buggered if I can find it.

 

[S21]

That's interesting, thank you.

edit:

curses, I had a look at their website and all I can find is a form which says "...it is advisable that the alarm holder should..."

I suppose there must, somewhere, be a reference to a bylaw or enforcable regulation, but I'm b*****r if I can find it.

you could email them and ask if any of the orders are still in force, they work a bit like alcohol exclusion orders, I`m sure there may be a list of those somewhere too but probably not on the internet either.

 

[yaleguy3]

I think John D mentioned one time that some councils had previously had these in force but had then decided not to keep the information due to the responsibilities of the data protection act.

 

[S21]

I think John D mentioned one time that some councils had previously had these in force but had then decided not to keep the information due to the responsibilities of the data protection act.

so there you go, section 80 gives you a legal requirement to ensure your alarm doesn't cause a noise nuisance via recommendations and section 60 gives the council the authority to ensure it has the details required to enforce it if it so wants.


bit like the highway code isn`t law but will be used against you


good, glad I could sort that out for you

HTH

 

[yaleguy3]

I think John D mentioned one time that some councils had previously had these in force but had then decided not to keep the information due to the responsibilities of the data protection act.

so there you go, section 80 gives you a legal requirement to ensure your alarm doesn't cause a noise nuisance via recommendations and section 60 gives the council the authority to ensure it has the details required to enforce it if it so wants.


bit like the highway code isn`t law but will be used against you


good, glad I could sort that out for you

HTH

The section 80 legal requirement is covered by the manufacture of the systems who all now have a 20 minute maximum alarm time.

Re section 60

The council may or may not decide to designate a protected zone and if they have not then there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT to inform them an alarm has been installed or who if any the keyholders are.

Not strictly like the highway code at all as whether it becomes legal or not depends on whether the local council decide to make it so and it's not on a case by case basis but by public announcement and arbitration and finally a blanket legal rule.

So if your current council has not decided to take those steps it is not a legal requirement to conform.

 

[S21]

I think John D mentioned one time that some councils had previously had these in force but had then decided not to keep the information due to the responsibilities of the data protection act.

so there you go, section 80 gives you a legal requirement to ensure your alarm doesn't cause a noise nuisance via recommendations and section 60 gives the council the authority to ensure it has the details required to enforce it if it so wants.


bit like the highway code isn`t law but will be used against you


good, glad I could sort that out for you

HTH

The section 80 legal requirement is covered by the manufacture of the systems who all now have a 20 minute maximum alarm time.

Re section 60

The council may or may not decide to designate a protected zone and if they have not then there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT to inform them an alarm has been installed or who if any the keyholders are.

Not strictly like the highway code at all as whether it becomes legal or not depends on whether the local council decide to make it so and it's not on a case by case basis but by public announcement and arbitration and finally a blanket legal rule.

So if your current council has not decided to take those steps it is not a legal requirement to conform.

I haven`t said there is an automatic legal requirement to inform them of keyholders, have I?






.

 

[yaleguy3]

Sorry I did not mean a blanket requirement countrywide just a locally enforced blanket requirement.

This whole topic came about because someone mentioned that it was illegal NOT to inform your local council and that if you did not you were breaking the law.

I think we have all established now that it is all dependent on your own particular local authority.

 

[S21]

Sorry I did not mean a blanket requirement countrywide just a locally enforced blanket requirement.

how do you know your street isn`t under a section 60 notice?


google is not the answer, email your council and lets see.